2020 ROT

[coordinator0]

Greg Roman is the main reason I don't have faith in the passing game evolving. He's not adept at building an offensive scheme to do so. Never has been. I'm not really all that upset with it either because that's been something obvious and known before his time with the Ravens. Greg really knows his stuff when it comes to the running game (with a quarterback that can run) but outside of that... nah. If he was just as good or at least fairly decent with the passing game he would have been a head coach years ago. But he's not.

I have a hard time believing in the ability to develop young receivers when the foundation just isn't there. Position coaches can only do so much. It's the quality of the opportunity that counts. The only way this works is if the receivers are so uber-talented that they dominate their coverage regardless or the team brings in guys who are already established and still really good. Just veteran presence and knowledge won't get it done in this offense because they need to be able to beat their man and separate too. 

The team is going to have to make a decision after the season. Winning it all or just barely missing out might (probably would) give them pause but they need to decide on an offensive identity. Trying to be a run-first team is fine but you can't throw that out the window and try to do something completely different when getting behind. That's no recipe for success. If the decision is to stick with the run approach then that's fine. But stick with the run approach. 

[Danand]

Isn't Urban on the staff to evovle the passing game? 

[DreamKid]

2 minutes ago, Danand said:

Isn't Urban on the staff to evovle the passing game? 

No, David Culley is.

[Ray Reed]

1 hour ago, coordinator0 said:

Greg Roman is the main reason I don't have faith in the passing game evolving. He's not adept at building an offensive scheme to do so. Never has been. I'm not really all that upset with it either because that's been something obvious and known before his time with the Ravens. Greg really knows his stuff when it comes to the running game (with a quarterback that can run) but outside of that... nah. If he was just as good or at least fairly decent with the passing game he would have been a head coach years ago. But he's not.

I have a hard time believing in the ability to develop young receivers when the foundation just isn't there. Position coaches can only do so much. It's the quality of the opportunity that counts. The only way this works is if the receivers are so uber-talented that they dominate their coverage regardless or the team brings in guys who are already established and still really good. Just veteran presence and knowledge won't get it done in this offense because they need to be able to beat their man and separate too. 

The team is going to have to make a decision after the season. Winning it all or just barely missing out might (probably would) give them pause but they need to decide on an offensive identity. Trying to be a run-first team is fine but you can't throw that out the window and try to do something completely different when getting behind. That's no recipe for success. If the decision is to stick with the run approach then that's fine. But stick with the run approach. 

This was something I brought up this offseason in our offensive thread when everyone was hyped about moving to more WR based sets after we traded Hurst.

I said it then and I'll continue to say it - we went 14-2 last year running more than any team in the NFL. Don't try and go out and pass more and play in more sets with pass-first personnel just to prove that you can. Force teams to stop the run and if they can't there's no reason to go away from it. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Ray Reed

[AngusMcFife]

59 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

This was something I brought up this offseason in our offensive thread when everyone was hyped about moving to more WR based sets after we traded Hurst.

I said it then and I'll continue to say it - we went 14-2 last year running more than any team in the NFL. Don't try and go out and pass more and play in more sets with pass-first personnel just to prove that you can. Force teams to stop the run and if they can't there's no reason to go away from it. 

A couple points:

1) Lamar is not going to grow as a passer if we keep running it all the time. The coaches need to put him in challenging situations to see how he'll respond. It's better he makes mistakes early on this year and learns from them, so he improves in the long run. 

2) Defenses are more prepared to stop the run, so it just isn't going to be that effective as it was last year. You can't just keep repeating running plays in the NFL and expect the same results.  

[coordinator0]

2 hours ago, Danand said:

Isn't Urban on the staff to evovle the passing game? 

Doesn't matter if he's not the one calling the shots and installing the offense. 

[Ray Reed]

2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

A couple points:

1) Lamar is not going to grow as a passer if we keep running it all the time. The coaches need to put him in challenging situations to see how he'll respond. It's better he makes mistakes early on this year and learns from them, so he improves in the long run. 

2) Defenses are more prepared to stop the run, so it just isn't going to be that effective as it was last year. You can't just keep repeating running plays in the NFL and expect the same results.  

That hasn’t really been the case though. We’ve run it effectively this year when we’ve committed to it. Look at last night.

And yeah obviously if it isn’t working you make adjustments and start throwing but that was my entire point - don’t do that until teams prove they can stop the run first.

[DreamKid]

 

[BareYourTeeth]

 

[RavensfanRD]

3 hours ago, DreamKid said:

 

There is no longer a debate as Roman opened his mouth and removed all doubt. He is 100% trash. That makes no damn sense!

[DreamKid]

5 minutes ago, RavensfanRD said:

There is no longer a debate as Roman opened his mouth and removed all doubt. He is 100% trash. That makes no damn sense!

I forget, how did Roman initially earn your ire/skepticism? You're probably the most positive fan in the forum but have always reserved what seems like your only complaints for ol' Greggy Rome. Anything specific or just a general lack of confidence in him?

[RavensfanRD]

16 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

I forget, how did Roman initially earn your ire/skepticism? You're probably the most positive fan in the forum but have always reserved what seems like your only complaints for ol' Greggy Rome. Anything specific or just a general lack of confidence in him?

Never liked anything about him. From SF to Buffalo to here. He fails to make adjustments and doesn't put his players in position to succeed. They win in spite of him, in my opinion. And above all, he stops using what works... running the football.

[diamondbull424]

On 9/29/2020 at 3:19 PM, AngusMcFife said:

A couple points:

1) Lamar is not going to grow as a passer if we keep running it all the time. The coaches need to put him in challenging situations to see how he'll respond. It's better he makes mistakes early on this year and learns from them, so he improves in the long run. 

2) Defenses are more prepared to stop the run, so it just isn't going to be that effective as it was last year. You can't just keep repeating running plays in the NFL and expect the same results.  

Agreed. My only concern is Lamar developing bad habits behind this OL. The biggest issue is Zeus Jr. He went from being in the best shape of his life last season to combine Zeus in one offseason. He’s a complete turnstile that I don’t trust and he’s getting beat like a drum consistently.

I think we should put Lamar in more passing situations so that the team has a passing confidence that when the game is close they can make plays in the passing attack.

I’m sure it seems counterintuitive considering the major investments made in the rushing attack and the strengths of this team. But if the Ravens continue to destroy teams with the run and then pass only once the game has opened up, the squad never develops trust in each other to execute and Lamar is never forced to have to call out protections and get in sync with that OL to some degree.

Back to Brown though, if he has another few games or so like he has had every week to this point, the team needs to strongly consider moving him inside to guard and seeing what we’ve got at RT with Philips (or Fluker). The bye week would be the perfect time to make the switch. Brown is a great run blocker, but with his length and size if he can barely react fast enough to scrape a defensive player, he’s got no business protecting Lamar along the edges. Teams are just lining up in wide 9 against him all game long and undressing him.

I won’t completely rule this team out because I remember a critical part of our 2012 SB team (besides firing Cam Cameron mid-season) was the OL adjustment that was made mid season (on the bye week IIRC). Moving Michael Oher from LT to RT, moving Kelechi Osemele from RT to LG, and then inserting the now motivated (after being benched the entire season for being lazy) Bryant McKinnie back into the lineup.

As it stands with this current OL and their current deficiencies, it just won’t cut it IMO. I think a serious switch up needs to happen. Personally if it were me, I’d switch Brown Jr to LG, Philips to RT, and Bozeman (the more experienced guard) to RG to help out the rookie.

Bozeman has done a great job for much of the season minus KC and seems to consistently be above average to good. But he consistently gets abused against quality pass rushers. I’d be interested to see how Brown Jr could do in said role with his size and power. The leverage would surely be an issue, but Ogden was able to dominate at guard with his size and so Brown Jr doing the same wouldn’t be something that would surprise me.

If the experiment works, I think it’d fix the weak side DTs overwhelming our guard, while fixing the communication breakdowns that have constantly plagued the B gap patrolled by Philips, who seems far less overwhelmed when he can just get in his set and block his man vs seeing all the machine gun action on the stunts as he’s seen to this point. I trust Bozeman to cover up that problem.

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, but if this OL continues to look broke going into the bye week. I’ve got no hope for it to massively improve without shaking things up some.

If we can improve the OL pass protection, I’m fully on board with them looking to pass more to setup the run so as to build Lamar as a passer. I think the bye week might be the perfect time to add some additional passing wrinkles, see what an explosive option like Duvernay might be able to handle as a deep threat receiver as opposed to just using him on end arounds and screens.

[M.10.E]

The only OL changes I can see happening are C/RG. I HIGHLY doubt they'll even consider touching the tackles and Bozeman. I also don't think the OL is as bad as people are saying. Have they had bad plays, yes? But they aren't bottom half of the league bad. Both PFF/Ken McKusick think our OL played well enough to win last week.

Edited October 2, 2020 by M.10.E

[diamondbull424]

24 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

The only OL changes I can see happening are C/RG. I HIGHLY doubt they'll even consider touching the tackles and Bozeman. I also don't think the OL is as bad as people are saying. Have they had bad plays, yes? But they aren't bottom half of the league bad. Both PFF/Ken McKusick think our OL played well enough to win last week.

Like I said. That’s what I would do. Not what I think what will be done. Two different things. Realistically I don’t think any change is made to the OL at all.

They’re not going to bench Skura considering they gave him his start job back. They’re not going to bench Philips as they knew starting a rookie meant he would need time to develop and to this point he’s improved in every game. Bozeman is entrenched at LG because they didn’t even allow a competition to decide his fate this offseason, plus he’s been our best OL this season outside of when Stanley has been 100% healthy. Then I doubt they give up on Brown Jr... because he’s still young and they’ll expect him to figure it out. So outside of injury, I don’t actually see a single thing changing.

In terms of the takes by PFF and Ken, cool. I don’t see it that way. Brown Jr has been utterly dominant in run blocking, our most dominant run blocker for sure. But he’s been equally bad in pass pro. Philips while not a turnstile has been overwhelmed consistently by schemed pressures. Skura has not played well.

The fact that the team has given up 17 pressures, with only 88 offensive snaps thats a pressure on 19.3% of passing snaps. That makes it look respectable. However when considering the fact that the Ravens on 1st and 2nd down almost exclusively employ RPOs with the threat of the run vastly deterring pass rushers, it influences the OL numbers and make them look better than what they are. The adjusted sack rate puts them 2nd worst in the league. The pressures provided on 3rd down or when no other RB is in the backfield has been astounding. When the Ravens pass protectors aren’t protected by the scheme they’re falling flat at a high rate. Bozeman, until the KC game, was the only one legitimately holding his own consistently (outside of the occasional play). Stanley when healthy has still been PB level, but he’s been in and out of games, and hobbled. Outside of that, everyone else has been less than reliable in pass protection. The entire right side is a problem. If they think the OL is good in pass protection, more power to them. I don’t.