WindyCity Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 13 hours ago, topwop1 said: You cannot play that game man. You can certainly change your mind on a player, but to give kudos to a GM at the time for drafting a certain player and now bashing him for making the pick because it now looks like it was the wrong move, is just bad taste IMO. That's wussy arse crap. I gave him credit for picking a QB. I made my stance very clear. Pace and Trubisky are tied together, if Trubisky sucks Pace should be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 7 hours ago, The_Romen said: No more white UDFA heroes, only top 10 bust hopefuls now! Can we get Manziel or Weeden next??? 6 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: Manziel is still in rehab that is sanctioned, sponsored, and funded by a strip club in a small town in Arizona. Whenever he finishes his 985 day sessions he will back for sure. With a vengeance. Speaking of which 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 6 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: Yep. I have no problem with ANYONE criticizing Pace for drafting Mitch when he knew damn well that Fox wasn't going to be around for more than a year and he would have to replace him. All the while putting the new HC/OC in place of position that they are forced to mold a QB who they did not choose into something that matched their vision. I still criticize Pace for allowing Fox to start Mitch and putting him in a losing situation that killed his confidence. Pce/Fox should have rode the year out with his 20 million dollar Glennon and let Mitch learn instead of throwing him into the fire with a bunch of nobodies. There is plenty to criticize Pace about, but when you are criticizing him for drafting a highly regarded player that filled a need that you agreed with at the time.....that's a cop out. Results business. He gets paid a lot of money and has a lot of resources to get the pick right. Picking a QB was 100% the right decision. Picking the wrong QB is what should get him fired, as I said in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 No matter what in 2021 you are going to pay Foles or Trubisky huge money. Give me the younger player that frees up draft picks to go to other positions. 2021: Foles [25 million], 1st/2nd round QB 2021: Trubisky [28 million], 1st OT I think option 2 makes you a better team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBHalas Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 24 minutes ago, WindyCity said: As Dan Weiderer and Rich Campbell reported in the tribune. They did not meet with him at the Pro Day and the only meeting they had was the car wash interview at the combine. If your picking a QB high, I think you need more than that much contact with one of the top options. Especially when Pace points to getting to know Trubisky the person as being so important to his decision. His family, his car, the dinner reservation and on and on. It's been widely acknowledged that the Bears went to Watson's pro day. Pace, Fox, Loggins, Ragone and their head scout were there. I find it hard to believe that with that contingency of personnel that they would not have a sit down conversation with Watson. The bottom line is I feel like Pace did exactly what he said. He researched all three top quarterbacks in that draft, and eventually narrowed it down to two possibilites, Trubisky and Mahomes. He had a private workout and dinner with each, and decided on Trubisky, arguably the top rated quarterback. The rest of this is nonsense and innuendo, nothing more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 37 minutes ago, WindyCity said: As Dan Weiderer and Rich Campbell reported in the tribune. They did not meet with him at the Pro Day and the only meeting they had was the car wash interview at the combine. If your picking a QB high, I think you need more than that much contact with one of the top options. Especially when Pace points to getting to know Trubisky the person as being so important to his decision. His family, his car, the dinner reservation and on and on. So let's say it was reported that Pace did in fact sit down with Watson and had a thorough meeting him, but regardless still took Trubisky, would anything change in your mind? Probably not right? This discussion is so useless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, topwop1 said: So let's say it was reported that Pace did in fact sit down with Watson and had a thorough meeting him, but regardless still took Trubisky, would anything change in your mind? Probably not right? This discussion is so useless. 100% it would. It would still be a fireable offense, but it would at least have been a better process. The process was the only positive in this for Pace and now we start to see that the process wasn't as thorough as it should have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, WindyCity said: 100% it would. It would still be a fireable offense, but it would at least have been a better process. The process was the only positive in this for Pace and now we start to see that the process wasn't as thorough as it should have been. Thank you that's all I needed to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Thank you that's all I needed to know I am a little surprised that people do not think that missing pretty horrendously on a top 5 QB is not a fireable offense. How many GMs have missed on that big a swing at QB and survived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 13 hours ago, topwop1 said: Yet it wasn't really all that when you consider that IMO both Mayfield, Darnold are approaching Trubisky territory, Allen is just ok and that Rosen is a bust. The best QB from that year is by far Lamar Jackson and I doubt he would have been Bears selection had they waited until 2018 to take a QB since 30 other teams passed on him (including the team that selected him) before he ultimately got drafted at 32. The thing I agree with you here that I'll criticize Pace for is taking a QB with a lame duck coach in Fox. Why not just fire Fox then if you knew he wasn't going to stick around to be with the future QB? What a colossal waste of time and a year of crucial development. Yes, but consensus was 2017 was weak and 2018 had can’t misses. Didn’t turn out that way obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: I am a little surprised that people do not think that missing pretty horrendously on a top 5 QB is not a fireable offense. How many GMs have missed on that big a swing at QB and survived? Jimmy Johnson/Jerry Jones. Of course Jerry is not going to fire himself, but Jimmy was drafting at time of Walsh and he didn’t get fired over the pick. He got fired because Jones wanted to be boss and Jimmy wanted to be boss. But yes you are correct, a first round miss at QB, especially in top 10 usually means you are gone in NFL. But is that good policy? How do you ever learn and grow at an NFL GM job? Must you always be right and have early success in your first job? That being said, I am very disappointed with a number of draft decisions over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Jimmy Johnson/Jerry Jones. Of course Jerry is not going to fire himself, but Jimmy was drafting at time of Walsh and he didn’t get fired over the pick. He got fired because Jones wanted to be boss and Jimmy wanted to be boss. But yes you are correct, a first round miss at QB, especially in top 10 usually means you are gone in NFL. But is that good policy? How do you ever learn and grow at an NFL GM job? Must you always be right and have early success in your first job? That being said, I am very disappointed with a number of draft decisions over the years. I get the idea of allowing someone to learn. I think Pace has been afforded a number of chance to learn on the job. In my world some mistakes are so big that you forgo the chance to learn from them. Trubisky is in that category. Passing on Arians was in that category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Front office personnel and coaches are largely evaluated on their ability to build winning teams, not on individual draft picks. With that said I'm not sure how many mediocre seasons Pace can survive. He's put together 1 winning season in his tenure as Bears GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Just now, abstract_thought said: Front office personnel and coaches are largely evaluated on their ability to build winning teams, not on individual draft picks. With that said I'm not sure how many mediocre seasons Pace can survive. He's put together 1 winning season in his tenure as Bears GM. That is kind of what I am saying. You do not call him into the office and say "you are fired because you took Mitch". He gets fired because missing on Mitch puts them on the mediocre QB carousel which leads to mediocrity. Hit on Mitch and you are set up for sustained success. Miss on him and we are set up for sustained mediocrity because our defense is good enough to carry us there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I get the idea of allowing someone to learn. I think Pace has been afforded a number of chance to learn on the job. In my world some mistakes are so big that you forgo the chance to learn from them. Trubisky is in that category. Passing on Arians was in that category. I understand Polian ‘consulted’ and picked Fox and he picked Pace as well and Pace didn’t get to pick first coach. Pace got to pick Nagy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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