WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Just now, Madmike90 said: Peyton Manning in Indy...greatest QB of all time IMO...how many superbowls in Indy? Aaron Rodgers...in the conversation for greatest of all time...how many superbowls? Thinking you build a winner with a QB and nothing else is foolish. The same QBs win the Super Bowl every year. In the past 20 years mediocre QB have have won 4/20. Brady, Manning, Manning, Wilson, Reothlisberger, Mahomes, Brees, there is a reason these guys win the Super Bowl every year. Yes you need a good team, you are not winning anything with a bad team, but if you do not have a good QB you are hoping to be the exception and not the rule. It is 2020, you either have a good QB or you are largely irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: Peyton Manning in Indy...greatest QB of all time IMO...how many superbowls in Indy? Aaron Rodgers...in the conversation for greatest of all time...how many superbowls? Thinking you build a winner with a QB and nothing else is foolish. Thinking a good team with a bad QB is going to win anything isn't foolish it is illoigcal. Good teams with mediocre QBs win sproradically. The difference maker is the QB. If you want sustained success you need a QB of a certain level. If you want to legitimately compete every year you need a good QB. Edited May 16, 2020 by WindyCity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, WindyCity said: The same QBs win the Super Bowl every year. In the past 20 years mediocre QB have have won 4/20. Brady, Manning, Manning, Wilson, Reothlisberger, Mahomes, Brees, there is a reason these guys win the Super Bowl every year. Yes you need a good team, you are not winning anything with a bad team, but if you do not have a good QB you are hoping to be the exception and not the rule. It is 2020, you either have a good QB or you are largely irrelevant. As least your seeing that... Like I said to think you win by just having the best QB is just not true...ever one of those QBs played on great teams...did they elevate those teams? Sure...but they played as a team...I just can't accept that a GMs entire job comes down to one position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: Peyton Manning in Indy...greatest QB of all time IMO...how many superbowls in Indy? Aaron Rodgers...in the conversation for greatest of all time...how many superbowls? Thinking you build a winner with a QB and nothing else is foolish. Super Bowls? Pace has made the playoffs once. When he does that we can have the Angelo/Lovie discussion of "can Pace get the Bears over the top?" For now I'm wondering he can build and maintain an offense that consistently gets them into January Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Sugashane said: Christ, spare me the box stat regurgitation. Tru was not good, period. He put up 6 points in the first half (0 in the 1st quarter again, shocking), with a dropped INT in the endzone before they made that second field goal. He almost threw an INT on another bad throw after the Miller screwing up. Three throws should have been intercepted in the first half alone. Two redzone trips with nothing but a pair of FGs to show for it. Got the ball inside the 50 and promptly went three and out. Late in the 3rd he then is inaccurate on a wide open throw to ARob that could have been a TD too but resulted in another FG when they floundered. Had a connection to Bellamy for 30+ years but his inaccuracy again cost us as Bellamy wasn't hit in stride, another play that should have been a TD but wasn't. He was crap for the bulk of the first 3 quarters. Again I'm talking about context. Look at the history of QB debuts in the playoffs. It's terrible. Just compare the other debuts the same year. Deshaun Watson played like trash, Lamar Jackson was so bad the fans were chanting Flacco at halftime. Mahomes was ok and again statistically worse than Trubisky. The QBs with better debuts than Trubisky are HOFers and SuperBowl winners. The bottom line is that the QB had his team in position to win the game as the clock ticked zero. If the FG goes in they do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: As least your seeing that... Like I said to think you win by just having the best QB is just not true...ever one of those QBs played on great teams...did they elevate those teams? Sure...but they played as a team...I just can't accept that a GMs entire job comes down to one position. It does if you constantly fail at the position and the team is usually average or bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 minute ago, beardown3231 said: It does if you constantly fail at the position and the team is usually average or bad You can't possibly say the talent on this team is bad...even average is selling them well short. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: You can't possibly say the talent on this team is bad...even average is selling them well short. Of course the talent isn't bad, but the record shows Pace has been bad to average throughout his tenure. I don't give a damn about talent if the team stinks. Do you? Do you like when the Bears are talented but don't win anything? 2012 and 2013 were a blast, right? And if your argument is "they're talented and Pace made 'em that way," then what's the common denominator on why they're average? The QB? Who chose that QB? Edited May 16, 2020 by beardown3231 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, WindyCity said: It only set the franchise back years and blew a hole in the side of the elite defenses competitive window. Which is why I so desperately wanted Pace to be even more proactive in dealing with the problem. Should have drafted another QB last year, in fact. (Just in case, and to get rid of Daniel.) 46 minutes ago, WindyCity said: The miss on Trubisky set us back years. While technically true (as it will be more than a single year), what's worse is assuming Foles automatically fixes the problem, if there ends up being one. I really, really, like Foles--but even I'm not comfortable declaring "mission accomplished" with that signing. Edited May 16, 2020 by Heinz D. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 "GM's only have one job. Get a QB." ""All you need to win a SB is a good QB". Man I have seen some outrageous arguments on this board but this takes the cake. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: Of course the talent isn't bad, but the record shows Pace has been bad to average throughout his tenure. I don't give a damn about talent if the team stinks. Do you? Do you like when the Bears are talented but don't win anything? 2012 and 2013 were a blast, right? And if your argument is "they're talented and Pace made 'em that way," then what's the common denominator on why they're average? The QB? Who chose that QB? Does it tho since Pace had his HC in Nagy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 48 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: Peyton Manning in Indy...greatest QB of all time IMO...how many superbowls in Indy? Aaron Rodgers...in the conversation for greatest of all time...how many superbowls? Thinking you build a winner with a QB and nothing else is foolish. Rodgers only has one becuse his GM couldn't build a TEAM(defense) around him and Manning only got his 2nd riding the coat tails of the defense. Tarkenton, Moon, Kelly, MArino, Warner, Rivers, FOuts, McNabb, Matt Ryan, Rich Gannon, Romo, all have ZERO SB's. Favre, Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, only have 1. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 28 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: "GM's only have one job. Get a QB." ""All you need to win a SB is a good QB". Man I have seen some outrageous arguments on this board but this takes the cake. Who said either of those? You have them in quotes, so I'd be interested to know. It's nice he has built a good defense, but in 6 years he's added 1 good WR and 1 good iOL to the offense. The rest either aren't good or still up in the air. He's going to need a really good QB if he plans on continuing to add nothing else offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: Again I'm talking about context. Look at the history of QB debuts in the playoffs. It's terrible. Just compare the other debuts the same year. Deshaun Watson played like trash, Lamar Jackson was so bad the fans were chanting Flacco at halftime. Mahomes was ok and again statistically worse than Trubisky. The QBs with better debuts than Trubisky are HOFers and SuperBowl winners. The bottom line is that the QB had his team in position to win the game as the clock ticked zero. If the FG goes in they do. I disagree completely Supe. If you're looking at stats then you're literally removing all context. Mahomes first two playoff games KC scored 31 points in each. His team doubled the output of Trubisky. He actually ran for a TD too, which matched the lone TD Tru put up. At the end of the day he made sure they got in and IND had to focus on his passing attack so much that they basically said KC had to beat them with the run, and they did. They scored 14 points in the 1st and the offense dominated IND. KC had 433 total yards and had a TOP of nearly 40 minutes. THAT is actual context, and clearly Mahomes completely outdid Tru. Watson played poorly and was worse than Tru, absolutely. He put up almost the same yards and like Tru accounted for one score in a terribly low scoring game though. That's seen indictment to both Rauner than a positive top Tru to me though. Jackson was a known project taken late in the 1st and still put up more points than Tru's Bears, plus the team wasn't even set up around him yet as it wad set up for Flacco's game. He was terrible though, especially with the fumbles. But to the point the QBs job is to get his team to score points (hopefully directly through him but I'll take 30 points however I can get them). Tru's lone effort did not yield much, though I give him credit for making the big throws at the end to give us a chance. Edited May 16, 2020 by Sugashane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, Sugashane said: But to the point the QBs job is to get his team to score points (hopefully directly through him but I'll take 30 points however I can get them). Tru's lone effort did not yield much, though I give him credit for making the big throws at the end to give us a chance. Mitch did fine in the playoff game. Let's not pull our hair out arguing about something that is, in the scheme of things, so minor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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