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Bears to decline Trub's 5th year option

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I think that is somewhat fair...however if Pace & Nagy are still winning even without elite QB play I would have a tough time getting rid of winners...

I have plenty of faith in Pace & Nagy getting that spot right if we dedicate a high round pick to it.

Not sure where that faith comes from.

I think where we fundamentally disagree is I don’t see them winning anything of note without an actual long term QB.

I need consistent playoff appearances and some playoff wins.

Edited by WindyCity

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8 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Not sure where that faith comes from.

I think where we fundamentally disagree is I don’t see them winning anything of note without an actual long term QB.

I need consistent playoff appearances and some playoff wins.

While they are obviously better to have and give you a greater chance at success, teams do not necessarily need a long term QB to win anything of note.  Nick Foles has proved this once before and so have countless others.  The other most recent QB's that come to mind are Manning when he was with Denver, Flacco with Baltimore, plus Kaepernick and Jimmy G with 49ers.  While the latter two guys didn't win, they were good enough to take their teams there and came very close to being crowned SB champs, and I don't know if you can argue those two guys were/are viable long term options.

Bears just need to be good enough to get to the dance and then see what happens.  Nick Foles has caught lightning in a bottle once before.  If you are going to try that model then there's no better guy to have as your wildcard.

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14 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Not sure where that faith comes from.

I think where we fundamentally disagree is I don’t see them winning anything of note without an actual long term QB.

I need consistent playoff appearances and some playoff wins.

I feel as though the vast majority GMs would have taken Trubisky in that draft...everyone can look back and say differently but at the time Trubisky was #1 for the vast majority...Pace didn't do something crazy...he is clearly a good talent scout as a lot of his picks prove...I think between him and Nagy they have the experience and skill to identify a QB who they can develop long term...

I think you can win football games in a whole ton of different ways and not just by having an elite QB...I think you can have even do well in the play offs and if we stay consistent in the approach and keep adding talent I see no reason we can't be successful.

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Posted (edited)

@CWood21 Again, yeah I hate when my favorite team has Hall of Famers that they have to pay top dollar for. It's so terrible. 9_9

@GOGRIESE You told me during the draft "I call bulls*** and no matter what you say I won't believe it" regarding Pace taking OL and now you're saying it again to Windy. Your comparison is the Steelers? Really? They took Dennis Dixon in the late rounds TWELVE years ago and Landry Jones in the 4th round 7 years ago. That's your argument? We all want Pace to occasionally take a developmental QB, and we should since HE said he'd like to (and then never did). Roethlisberger is going to the HOF. I think we'd all be happy if Pace found a HOF'er, or are you calling BS again?

@Madmike90 Agree on your sentiment about the O in 2018 as opposed to 2019, but it's not like they were world beaters in 2018 either. There was a ton of inconsistency. The OL couldn't run block. The QB was up and down. I think they were something like 20th as an offense. Not poor but certainly not good.

@GBHalas 

Get Cutler, wanted anyone else.

Got Glennon, got pissed.

Drafted Trubisky, couldn't believe it.

Traded for Foles, no clue why.

Story of the fan base, really. Never satisfied... but after ALL of these years I think we do have a right to expect a lot better from the player and the FO finding the QB

Edited by beardown3231
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2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Of course I would. I am not even asking for HOF QB play. I am asking for a GM who can provide us with a long term QB.

I am not satisfied because we are going back in time. We made changes to enter into the modern NFL and we continue to be a good defense, bad offense, and poor QB play. It is like ground hogs day.

We had quality qb play for years with Cutler and the fan base couldn't wait to run him out of town

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7 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

@CWood21 Again, yeah I hate when my favorite team has Hall of Famers that they have to pay top dollar for. It's so terrible. 9_9

@GOGRIESE You told me during the draft "I call bulls*** and no matter what you say I won't believe it" regarding Pace taking OL and now you're saying it again to Windy. Your comparison is the Steelers? Really? They took Dennis Dixon in the late rounds TWELVE years ago and Landry Jones in the 4th round 7 years ago. That's your argument? We all want Pace to occasionally take a developmental QB, and we should since HE said he'd like to (and then never did). Roethlisberger is going to the HOF. I think we'd all be happy if Pace found a HOF'er, or are you calling BS again?

@Madmike90 Agree on your sentiment about the O in 2018 as opposed to 2019, but it's not like they were world beaters in 2018 either. There was a ton of inconsistency. The OL couldn't run block. The QB was up and down. I think they were something like 20th as an offense. Not poor but certainly not good.

@GBHalas 

Get Cutler, wanted anyone else.

Got Glennon, got pissed.

Drafted Trubisky, couldn't believe it.

Traded for Foles, no clue why.

Story of the fan base, really. Never satisfied... but after ALL of these years I think we do have a right to expect a lot better from the player and the FO finding the QB

I think that's my point. No matter who is the quarterback the fan base will never be satisfied and blame the qb, coach and GM.  Hated Harbaugh when he was drafted and "Captain Comeback" was beloved in Indy until a guy named Manning came.  A successful GM staked his job on Cutler and when were found out he was an aloof borderline anti social person he was criticized and again ran out of town. Now we are arguing over if Trubisky was or is the right guy for the job. With this organization I contend that whomever they pick it will always be the wrong pick in the fan's eyes

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3 hours ago, WindyCity said:

3-13 or 4-12 or a complete QB meltdown I think they are in trouble.

Other than that I think they are okay.

I do not think that the McCaskeys want to blow it up, but I think they need to see something at QB from one of the guys.

I don't even think that would get them fired. It would make their seats EXTREMELY hot, but I'm of the opinion Pace has built up enough good-will with ownership.

You don't let a guy completely overhaul your facility and then can him a year or two later, especially with an elite defense and 20-13 record over two seasons with your hand-picked head coach.

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Theo Epstein, 2011 through 2015: 297-351 record and 1 winning season.

Windy: FIRE HIM!!!

2016 Chicago Cubs, not listening to Windy: World Series Champions.

 

Why on EARTH, @WindyCity, you fail to acknowledge the pure ****-show that Ryan Pace inherited is beyond me.

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46 minutes ago, GBHalas said:

We had quality qb play for years with Cutler and the fan base couldn't wait to run him out of town

^ Fact.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, G08 said:

Theo Epstein, 2011 through 2015: 297-351 record and 1 winning season.

Windy: FIRE HIM!!!

2016 Chicago Cubs, not listening to Windy: World Series Champions.

 

Why on EARTH, @WindyCity, you fail to acknowledge the pure ****-show that Ryan Pace inherited is beyond me.

You know that's not fair. Come on, dude. They hired Theo and literally told the fan base "we are going to trade our vets, intentionally blow for a few years as we restock our farm, and once we do so, we're going to spend and win." In 6 years Theo won a championship. In 6 years Pace hasn't won a playoff game. The comparisons couldn't be more off.

Edited by beardown3231

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45 minutes ago, GBHalas said:

I think that's my point. No matter who is the quarterback the fan base will never be satisfied and blame the qb, coach and GM.  Hated Harbaugh when he was drafted and "Captain Comeback" was beloved in Indy until a guy named Manning came.  A successful GM staked his job on Cutler and when were found out he was an aloof borderline anti social person he was criticized and again ran out of town. Now we are arguing over if Trubisky was or is the right guy for the job. With this organization I contend that whomever they pick it will always be the wrong pick in the fan's eyes

I get where you're coming from, but again, after years of watching dogs*** to average, we deserve to get to watch a good QB. If they had Mahomes we wouldn't be upset. If they had Wilson, same thing. 

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20 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

You know that's not fair. Come on, dude. They hired Theo and literally told the fan base "we are going to trade our vets, intentionally blow for a few years as we restock our farm, and once we do so, we're going to spend and win." In 6 years Theo won a championship. In 6 years Pace hasn't won a playoff game. The comparisons couldn't be more off.

Hold on now... Pace told ownership this was going to take a while and he had to rip everything down to the studs. Which he did. How is this any different other than my obvious attempt to be dense?

I'm not holding him accountable for the Fox era, but do not forget that he took the worst defense in Chicago Bears history and in 3 seasons made them top 10, and by year 4 they were ranked #1 in the NFL. That's outstanding work no matter how you dice it. Playoff appearance in year 4 with, and give me a break here, what should have been a W save for a piece of crap kicker (yes, Pace signed Parkey blah blah blah).

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The vitriol for Ryan Pace and Matt Nagy for some fans has become laughable.

Do you think we are the Patriots? The Packers? **** we aren't even the 49ers, guys.

 

We have young, developing leadership that HAS PROVEN to have formulas that work in this league. Can they be better? Absolutely. You don't just throw a hissy fit and fire everyone because you don't have a Super Bowl yet. Let him continue to build this team, let Nagy settle into his role of being a head coach and see where things can go.

Maybe people have short memories, but I have ZERO desire to go back to the Angelo days, let alone the Emery days.

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11 hours ago, CWood21 said:

The problem was the Bears doubled down on Trubisky.  Let's not mince words.  Khalil Mack is a tremendous player, but two FRPs AND $141M is a ton of coin to pay for a non-QB.  In 2020, of the 24 players with cap hits north of $20M only 9 of them are non-QBs.  And Khalil Mack has the highest cap hit of any non-QB.  That's a HUGE price to pay.

Yeah, that's the linchpin, right there. I suppose that, in Pace's defense, it can be pointed out that Trubisky fell apart mentally, and there's no real way to have seen that coming.

However, it is a pretty bleak development because of the trade. That's why MY dream scenario would have been to take a developmental QB THIS year, even with the acquisition of Foles. I was hoping Pace would trade up for Love, ideally. There were some rumors he was looking to do that, but apparently he didn't want to give up the capital to get into position to nab Love for certain.

Which is pretty lame, if you ask me. 

3 hours ago, topwop1 said:

One way or another the Bears will have at least one of Trubisky or Foles back in 2021.

Oh, absolutely. The most likely scenario is Foles is kept around as a bridge. I'd say the second most likely is Foles becomes a decent to above average starter for the Bears.

3 hours ago, topwop1 said:

Call me a homer but I actually think Bears will be a playoff team in 2021 so that means one of of Tru or Foles will have to play well enough.  I'm hoping that Mitch shocks the world.

The Bears have a very good shot at the playoffs. Mitch shocking the world is the least likely scenario, but it would be tremendous for the team if that happened, in spite of the cap hit that would follow.

40 minutes ago, G08 said:

I don't even think that would get them fired. It would make their seats EXTREMELY hot, but I'm of the opinion Pace has built up enough good-will with ownership.

Unless Foles or Trubisky is absolutely stellar and the defense is ravaged by injuries, I can pretty much guarantee you that 3-13 or 4-12 would get Pace fired. Nagy would probably follow, but that's not as certain. 

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11 hours ago, CWood21 said:

The problem was the Bears doubled down on Trubisky.  Let's not mince words.  Khalil Mack is a tremendous player, but two FRPs AND $141M is a ton of coin to pay for a non-QB.  In 2020, of the 24 players with cap hits north of $20M only 9 of them are non-QBs.  And Khalil Mack has the highest cap hit of any non-QB.  That's a HUGE price to pay.

The Mack trade has nothing to do with Trubisky. This is only you assuming Pace doesn't trade for Mack without Mitch and I would argue that Pace makes that move regardless of who the QB was. It's not often that a potential hall of fame talent at a prime position becomes available. 

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