Heinz D. Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Needed those as well. Well, I'm rehashing now, but, those were artificial needs. Could have gotten better at TE without spending a second round pick. Could have re-signed Amukamara. 5 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Pace is like the contractor that keeps coming to you for more money and time to fix the issue that they screwed up fixing. At some point you get a new contractor. I think if the Bears don't improve substantially this season, that Pace is gone. And if the team falls flat again, he deserves to be. Interesting to see if they still keep Nagy in that scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Pace is a contractor that is hired to renovate a house. The house has a crack in the foundation [QB]. He does a really nice job on lots of the house. But he does not fix the crack in the foundation, -He tries a temporary patch that fails to even temporarily do anything [Glennon] -He jacks the house up and re-pours, huge investment, the foundation and it cracks again [Trubisky] -He tries another temporary fix that we are not sure if it holds but is not a long term solution [Foles] You guys are really going to let him jack up the house again? Your really going to let him spend that time and resources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Just now, WindyCity said: You guys are really going to let him jack up the house again? Your really going to let him spend that time and resources? I'm fine with giving him this year, yeah. And, as I've said before, the Trubisky pick wasn't a colossal blunder, it just doesn't seem to have turned out. Foles could end up being the guy, but if they have to go young again, there's no reason some dude like Lawrence or Fields or Purdy will be a bust simply because Pace picks him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: I'm fine with giving him this year, yeah. And, as I've said before, the Trubisky pick wasn't a colossal blunder, it just doesn't seem to have turned out. Foles could end up being the guy, but if they have to go young again, there's no reason some dude like Lawrence or Fields or Purdy will be a bust simply because Pace picks him. The Trubisky pick isn't a colossal blunder based on Trubisky's play, but it is a colossal blunder based on who was passed on. It's harsh and revisionist history and hindsight and all of that, but it's a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: It is a combination of luck and skill I agree. Pace had a 66% chance of getting a good/great QB and missed, that is a skill issue and a failure of scouting and development as DL outlined in the other thread well. He got his pick of the QBs, no one interfered, it was his scouting and development plan. I get that it seems unfair that you either get QB right or you do not for a huge part of the assessment of a GM, but that is how the NFL has set it up. They have made it so that the teams with QBs are heavily advantaged over the ones who do not. If your GM couldn't find a good QB in the 80s, they could still be good and build a good team. That isn't the case now, you either have a QB or you are waiting to catch lightning in a bottle. Who didn't have Trubisky as the #1 QB in that class? I could understand your point if Pace went out his way to be different ala Emery in his time here...but Pace didn't...he played the odds the same as anyone else would have...he lost...so what? You will hit on some and miss on others...as long as you are winning significantly more than you are losing I have a hard time thinking one pick should define you...Pace has built a quality overall team here...does he deserve another chance to find his QB? 100% IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said: I'm just curious if you know that was one of the best playoff debuts in history for a QB? Like the only guy who was close to Trus level for a playoff debut that year was Mahomes (who in fact was statistically worse). Like if Anthony Miller just holds on to the ball after catching it, or just picks the damn thing up after fumbling it and it laying on the ground for 20 mins, that's a totally different ball game and Trus #s are right behind Montana and Warners respective playoff debuts. Want to talk about Tru not playing up to snuff last year, thats fine and I agree. But to say he was horrible in THAT game of all games, well thats just downright laughable. Christ, spare me the box stat regurgitation. Tru was not good, period. He put up 6 points in the first half (0 in the 1st quarter again, shocking), with a dropped INT in the endzone before they made that second field goal. He almost threw an INT on another bad throw after the Miller screwing up. Three throws should have been intercepted in the first half alone. Two redzone trips with nothing but a pair of FGs to show for it. Got the ball inside the 50 and promptly went three and out. Late in the 3rd he then is inaccurate on a wide open throw to ARob that could have been a TD too but resulted in another FG when they floundered. Had a connection to Bellamy for 30+ years but his inaccuracy again cost us as Bellamy wasn't hit in stride, another play that should have been a TD but wasn't. He was crap for the bulk of the first 3 quarters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: Who didn't have Trubisky as the #1 QB in that class? I could understand your point if Pace went out his way to be different ala Emery in his time here...but Pace didn't...he played the odds the same as anyone else would have...he lost...so what? You will hit on some and miss on others...as long as you are winning significantly more than you are losing I have a hard time thinking one pick should define you...Pace has built a quality overall team here...does he deserve another chance to find his QB? 100% IMO. I do not pay a GM to draft out of a magazine. Just because the media is wrong doesn't give a GM a pass. Building a quality team foes not qualify him to get another QB. His failure at QB in my world 100% disqualify him. Edited May 16, 2020 by WindyCity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Just now, WindyCity said: I do not pay a GM to draft out of a magazine. Just because the media is wrong doesn't give a GM a pss. Building a quality team foes not qualify him to get another QB. His failure at QB in my world 100% disqualify him. Can you name a single GM who thought Trubisky wasn't #1?... And to disqualify a GM from not being able to find a QB when he needs to find a roster of over 50 other guys is insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Just now, Madmike90 said: Can you name a single GM who thought Trubisky wasn't #1?... And to disqualify a GM from not being able to find a QB when he needs to find a roster of over 50 other guys is insanity. We have spent 10 pages getting to the point where we realize that QB is the single most important position. Finding a QB is the most important job a GM is tasked with, absolutely blowing it is a major issue. Can you name a single GM that had Trubisky 1? No, you don't. We do not know what anyone's draft board was. All that matters is that Pace picked him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Doing a great job at NT does not excuse the cluster F at QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, WindyCity said: We have spent 10 pages getting to the point where we realize that QB is the single most important position. Finding a QB is the most important job a GM is tasked with, absolutely blowing it is a major issue. Can you name a single GM that had Trubisky 1? No, you don't. We do not know what anyone's draft board was. All that matters is that Pace picked him. It is the most important...but it's not the only job...that is where your argument falls down IMO... Without hindsight Pace made the right pick at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: It is the most important...but it's not the only job...that is where your argument falls down IMO... Without hindsight Pace made the right pick at the time. They are judged on results, which is a hindsight business. The thought process on Jamarcus Russell was good, everyone had him #1, the Raiders did the right thing, and he sucked and it cost everyone his jobs. If you cannot do the most important part of the job then you really aren't good at the job. You either have a QB or you don't and with Ryan Pace we don't. Lets ignore the fact that his moves on offense have been less than good and I do not think your argument holds up at all. Building a really good defense does not mean you get to keep your job, ask Jerry Angelo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 I am not sure how you can look at the TE position and the investment there, Sims [10 mil], Burton [22 mil], Shaheen [2nd] round and be impressed by his work at TE. I am not sure you can look at the OL and be impressed what 40+ million and 2 2nd round picks has gotten us there. The only offensive positions he has done a good job at is RB and WR, and the jury is out on Montgomery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 26 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: Can you name a single GM who thought Trubisky wasn't #1?... And to disqualify a GM from not being able to find a QB when he needs to find a roster of over 50 other guys is insanity. Can you name one, besides Pace, who did have him #1? This is all pure speculation on anyone's part. We'll never know. I know for sure Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks both had Watson #1, in terms of media. 1 hour ago, Madmike90 said: Who didn't have Trubisky as the #1 QB in that class? I could understand your point if Pace went out his way to be different ala Emery in his time here...but Pace didn't...he played the odds the same as anyone else would have...he lost...so what? You will hit on some and miss on others...as long as you are winning significantly more than you are losing I have a hard time thinking one pick should define you...Pace has built a quality overall team here...does he deserve another chance to find his QB? 100% IMO. "So what?" Really? "So what?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Just now, beardown3231 said: Can you name one, besides Pace, who did have him #1? This is all pure speculation on anyone's part. We'll never know. I know for sure Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks both had Watson #1, in terms of media. "So what?" Really? "So what?" It only set the franchise back years and blew a hole in the side of the elite defenses competitive window. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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