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Andy Dalton signs 1 year deal with the Dallas Cowboys


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1 hour ago, DoleINGout said:

Ask Belichick.

You disagree with Belichick’s decisions regularly - but now you’ll appeal to that authority? 

Dallas’ situation doesn’t even compare. They have the cap space, Pats didn’t. They have a win-now roster, Pats don’t. They have a young QB, Brady isn’t that. 

So again - how do the Cowboys get better by going from a good QB in Dak to a fringe starter in Dalton? 

Edited by Yin-Yang
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1 hour ago, DoleINGout said:

Ask Belichick.

You do realize that Brady signed for the largest contract in history at one point, right?

A title that he did not hold for long, because both Eli and Peyton exceeded it a few months later. The same thing that will happen to Dak. He will sign, then Watson, Jackson, Mahomes, etc will all surpass it by next year.

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On 04/05/2020 at 8:50 PM, SaveOurSonics said:

How are the Pats so up against the cap with no QB on their roster? 

26.2m in dead money. I'm assuming that must be why, because there's only 3 players with over 10m in cap hit on the books. I don't know if that's a lot of dead money?

 

Apparently next year we are over 100m in cap space. 

This is why I'd quite like Dak to leave Dallas so we could have a shot ( @Matts4313, !! ) because contrary to what you might think, I like him! I believe he's what we need at our current stage, a definite leader who can spread the ball around accurately and craft out wins (he'd need to learn to play in the rain though). 

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11 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

ok. What is the basis of those personal thoughts? Im just trying to understand what would bring you to that conclusion.

I don't think his accuracy is all that great and he is limited in his ability to scan the entire field.  Other than that I think he has good athletic ability and is a decent QB, just not $30M+ worthy on a multi year deal but I'll never hate on a guy getting paid. I just don't believe I would sign him to that deal if I were ever the GM of a team.  Not yet anyway.  I need to see more from him before committing that much $.

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18 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I don't think his accuracy is all that great and he is limited in his ability to scan the entire field.  Other than that I think he has good athletic ability and is a decent QB, just not $30M+ worthy on a multi year deal but I'll never hate on a guy getting paid. I just don't believe I would sign him to that deal if I were ever the GM of a team.  Not yet anyway.  I need to see more from him before committing that much $.

In the past ~20 years, there is exactly 1 QB who has had a better first 4* years than Dak on an individual level. Russell Wilson. 

Not Brady, Manning x2, Brees, Ryan, Stafford, Rodgers (didnt play), Vick, McNabb, Goff, Wenz, Cam, Carr, Big Ben.

NONE of them were as accurate. None put up better stats. None of them were as efficient. None of them had the deep ball success. 

He was literally a top 10 QB last year, some sites argue top 5. He was rookie of the year. He has been in the MVP conversation (no chance of winning) twice in 4 years. His teammates love him. Hell, his opponents love him. When there was talks of OBJ leaving the NY Giants, he literally said Dak was the #1 QB he wanted to play with.

 

What else could you possibly want to see?

 

*I expect a few of the current crop to surpass him

Edited by Matts4313
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9 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

You disagree with Belichick’s decisions regularly - but now you’ll appeal to that authority? 

Dallas’ situation doesn’t even compare. They have the cap space, Pats didn’t. They have a win-now roster, Pats don’t. They have a young QB, Brady isn’t that. 

So again - how do the Cowboys get better by going from a good QB in Dak to a fringe starter in Dalton? 

I am not sure what debate you all are having, but I just interjected with a meme and saw Matt ask another poster about why that poster has an opinion on paying Dak.

I don't know what the specific arguments are here, but I feel like it is noteworthy the difference in price relative to value on a stacked team like the Cowboys.

As for my "Ask Belichick" comment, that is because he is opting to keep the team mostly intact by rolling with a cheap QB option. It is a comparable situation in the financial sense since it is Dalton/Dak at $3/$30+ and Stidham/Brady at $2/$30+

That is all the comparison is. Belichick has routinely made egregious miscalculations in the draft and his trade evaluations have been suspect as well. I don't think he is a complete crap GM but he is not a great drafter. Belichick is good at finding free agents and coaching. He is generally pretty good at managing the cap although things have become unhinged in the last couple of seasons.

I think the Brady situation in particular I have been on the record on for two years now that Bill will move on from him, and I have been in support of that decision as well.

9 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

You do realize that Brady signed for the largest contract in history at one point, right?

A title that he did not hold for long, because both Eli and Peyton exceeded it a few months later. The same thing that will happen to Dak. He will sign, then Watson, Jackson, Mahomes, etc will all surpass it by next year.

Not sure what the argument you were/are having with someone else in this thread is about  but the price difference between Dak and Dalton is significant and the drop off in play with that team is probably less significant.

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4 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I am not sure what debate you all are having, but I just interjected with a meme and saw Matt ask another poster about why that poster has an opinion on paying Dak.

I don't know what the specific arguments are here, but I feel like it is noteworthy the difference in price relative to value on a stacked team like the Cowboys.

As for my "Ask Belichick" comment, that is because he is opting to keep the team mostly intact by rolling with a cheap QB option. It is a comparable situation in the financial sense since it is Dalton/Dak at $3/$30+ and Stidham/Brady at $2/$30+

That is all the comparison is. Belichick has routinely made egregious miscalculations in the draft and his trade evaluations have been suspect as well. I don't think he is a complete crap GM but he is not a great drafter. Belichick is good at finding free agents and coaching. He is generally pretty good at managing the cap although things have become unhinged in the last couple of seasons.

I think the Brady situation in particular I have been on the record on for two years now that Bill will move on from him, and I have been in support of that decision as well.

The problem with that logic is that you’re assuming that the ~$30M in cap savings is going to be put to use between now and Week 1. How exactly is that the case? 

You’re also assuming that, if Dalton is really slight drop from Dak that he’s being touted as, that he’s going to sign next year for a one digit (in millions) contract where he’d be much cheaper than the ~$35M Dak is going to end up getting. Which obviously won’t be the case if Dalton plays well as a Cowboy. 

There’s no original debate or anything. I’m asking you - how does going from a good QB in Dak, to a fringe starter in Dalton, benefit the Cowboys? Obviously they have different price tags. But how does their difference in price equalize going to a bad quarterback? And how would those cap savings (for 2020 alone) be put to use that’d justify such a move?

EDIT: And you’re emitting so many facts regarding the Brady/Belichick thing, you know that. The door was open for Brady to come back, he didn’t want to. And NE was cap strapped in ways Dallas isn’t. Completely different situations.

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23 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

The problem with that logic is that you’re assuming that the ~$30M in cap savings is going to be put to use between now and Week 1. How exactly is that the case? 

No I am not assuming that. This is where I came into the conversation ya'll were having. I am just saying that I would agree with the idea that Dalton at $3 is a better value than Dak at $30+. I'm not sure what the context of the conversation was, but I am merely making a general statement.

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@Yin-Yang I guess for the record, I think the Cowboys should absolutely roll with Dak in 2020 on the tag. Maybe try to extend him, but roll with Dalton if you have to. I think the team would potentially with the Super Bowl with a happy, motivated and focused Dak in 2020. With a newbie Dalton? Eh, 10-6 again. And maybe a playoff win in there at the end if things fall right.

Investment wise long term, Dak will be more expensive obviously. If Dalton were to start every game and do decent as a starter again, then I think he could be looking at similar money to Ryan Tannehill.

I think the Tannehill deal will sort of fail to deliver in meaningful wins, and so I would expect the same scenario for the Cowboys if Dak were let go in favor of a cheaper Andy.

Comparing that decision to the Patriots Brady/Stidham one is just a matter of Jerry Jones choosing who the Cowboys can afford to extend. Will it be Dak or a couple of other players? Belichick was able to retain Thuney and Devin McCourty by not having to pay Brady. We know Kraft is on record saying Brady was back if he wanted to be. As for what Belichick had planned? He didn't say, but we know that he really liked Jimmy G for some reason. I suspect it was multifaceted but the cap was a big part of that failed attempt by Bill.

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16 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

26.2m in dead money. I'm assuming that must be why, because there's only 3 players with over 10m in cap hit on the books. I don't know if that's a lot of dead money?

 

Apparently next year we are over 100m in cap space. 

This is why I'd quite like Dak to leave Dallas so we could have a shot ( @Matts4313, !! ) because contrary to what you might think, I like him! I believe he's what we need at our current stage, a definite leader who can spread the ball around accurately and craft out wins (he'd need to learn to play in the rain though). 

You should watch actual Cowboy games and stay away from Dak's statline

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6 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

The problem with that logic is that you’re assuming that the ~$30M in cap savings is going to be put to use between now and Week 1. How exactly is that the case? 

You’re also assuming that, if Dalton is really slight drop from Dak that he’s being touted as, that he’s going to sign next year for a one digit (in millions) contract where he’d be much cheaper than the ~$35M Dak is going to end up getting. Which obviously won’t be the case if Dalton plays well as a Cowboy. 

There’s no original debate or anything. I’m asking you - how does going from a good QB in Dak, to a fringe starter in Dalton, benefit the Cowboys? Obviously they have different price tags. But how does their difference in price equalize going to a bad quarterback? And how would those cap savings (for 2020 alone) be put to use that’d justify such a move?

EDIT: And you’re emitting so many facts regarding the Brady/Belichick thing, you know that. The door was open for Brady to come back, he didn’t want to. And NE was cap strapped in ways Dallas isn’t. Completely different situations.

The cap savings from 2020 can roll into 2021, In addition, assuming Dalton plays well, he's looking at a contract somewhere between Bridgewater and Tannehill. There's also the part where Daltons already made 100 Million and assuming its a good situation in Dallas, and he's from Texas, it may not be about making every dollar out of his next contract, as Dak appears to be doing right now

If Dalton balls out and resigns for 25 Million per, that should put him 13 million cheaper than what Dak seems to be asking for. If the dropoff is slight, 13 million upgrades a lot of other positions on a roster

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17 minutes ago, TheGame316 said:

If the dropoff is slight, 13 million upgrades a lot of other positions on a roster

The only problem with this reasoning is that quarterbacks carry such a high positional value. A 10% downgrade at QB with a 10% upgrade at somewhere else is a net negative

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1 hour ago, TheGame316 said:

The cap savings from 2020 can roll into 2021, In addition, assuming Dalton plays well, he's looking at a contract somewhere between Bridgewater and Tannehill. There's also the part where Daltons already made 100 Million and assuming its a good situation in Dallas, and he's from Texas, it may not be about making every dollar out of his next contract, as Dak appears to be doing right now

If Dalton balls out and resigns for 25 Million per, that should put him 13 million cheaper than what Dak seems to be asking for. If the dropoff is slight, 13 million upgrades a lot of other positions on a roster

Why would the drop off be slight? Dalton has, in his entire career, put up one season comparable to Dak’s recent output. Seems pretty far fetched that the light will just come on a half-decade later. If he was worth his weight in copper, the Bengals wouldn’t have been in position to move on from him so easily. 

$13M + Dalton vs Dak? Easy decision.

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