Andy Dalton now a Cowboy

[TheGame316]

1 minute ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Toy do NOT rob peter to pay Paul, see you just dont understand. Conteacts are not flat, but 3 dimensional in a sense. This is not madden dude. 37 million doesnt mean you cost 37 on the cap. You can structure it in a way where it costs say 22 on the cap. Without robbing away from anything. In madden the contracts  made are flat and without structure. Not in the real world. Man, the more I read from you the more I picture someone who cant separate madden from the real thing kinda frustrated here.

DUDE

If a guy makes 4 years 100 Million and you dumb his cap number in the first year down to 10 Million, That means you have 90 Million to account for over the next 3 years

This is usually done as 10-20-30-40 or something like it by spreading out the bonus money. So you have cap value for 2 seasons (Robbing Peter) and then an overpriced player for 2 (Paying Paul). Now the player has you over a barrel and you either have to give him a new contract to lower that 40 million number in year 4, or cut the guy and have dead money on your cap

Dak is asking for about 75% of his money guaranteed over a 4 year deal. He is giving the Cowboys very little wiggle room to spread out the cap hit for year 1. By year 3 the number will already be huge if they push it too much

PS - I don't even play Madden

[Dallas94Ware]

22 hours ago, TheGame316 said:

DUDE

If a guy makes 4 years 100 Million and you dumb his cap number in the first year down to 10 Million, That means you have 90 Million to account for over the next 3 years

This is usually done as 10-20-30-40 or something like it by spreading out the bonus money. So you have cap value for 2 seasons (Robbing Peter) and then an overpriced player for 2 (Paying Paul). Now the player has you over a barrel and you either have to give him a new contract to lower that 40 million number in year 4, or cut the guy and have dead money on your cap

Dak is asking for about 75% of his money guaranteed over a 4 year deal. He is giving the Cowboys very little wiggle room to spread out the cap hit for year 1. By year 3 the number will already be huge if they push it too much

PS - I don't even play Madden

Contracts are not static. The way you can steucture the bonuses along the length of a year, the contract years themselves, etc. Hell you balance out a cap hit. You can turn a 30 million payout into 18 or 20 if structured correctly. There are ways of loading the money at the back as well, then pushing the money up front at the right time into a bonus one time payout that cuts the cap cost but still pays out the promised value without gambling away the future cap hits. It's all about structure. And part of that is the problem with Daks offer. Fewer years enlarges the current hit, but also makes it tougher to structure the contract in a way where you can mask the hit on the cap.

I cannot google it at the moment because my health is acting up the same health stuff that kept me away for 2 years and ended my coaching career, so I've no urge to search, but you can look up Mike Francesca's explanation on cap hits and how fewer years on Daks contract isn't just about how long Dallas keeps him here but how tough it becomes to mask the cap hit. He is a bit of a looney to listen to but his sports knowledge is always spot on.

And now I know you are lying. Dont say you dont play madden. I hate what madden does to fan bases logic, but even I load it up and game out simply because...well, football!

Edited May 11, 2020 by Dallas94Ware

[TheGame316]

6 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Contracts are not static. The way you can steucture the bonuses along the length of a year, the contract years themselves, etc. Hell you balance out a cap hit. You can turn a 30 million payout into 18 or 20 if structured correctly. There are ways of loading the money at the back as well, then pushing the money up front at the right time into a bonus one time payout that cuts the cap cost but still pays out the promised value without gambling away the future cap hits. It's all about structure. And part of that is the problem with Daks offer. Fewer years enlarges the current hit, but also makes it tougher to structure the contract in a way where you can mask the hit on the cap.

I cannot google it at the moment because my health is acting up the same health stuff that kept me away for 2 years and ended my coaching career, so I've no urge to search, but you can look up Mike Francesca's explanation on cap hits and ;how fewer years on Daks contract isn't just about how long Dallas keeps him here but how tough it becomes to mask the cap hit. He is a bit of a looney to listen to but his sports knowledge is always spot on.

And now I know you are lying. Dont say you dont play madden. I hate what madden does to fan bases logic, but even I load it up and game out simply because...well, football!

Work on your reading comprehension while you check on your health

We are saying the same things regarding Dak's cap hit

[Dallas94Ware]

8 minutes ago, TheGame316 said:

Work on your reading comprehension while you check on your health

We are saying the same things regarding Dak's cap hit

No we were not. Because you are arguing against paying him so we can spend more elsewhere but I am not saying anything like that. I explained why they are at an impasse for the moment. But he deserves every cent he is asking for and will get. And it wont restrict the cap or the team to do so. If structured well it wont matter, and this teams top talents are all already paid and locked in. You cant pay every good player. And Dak is capable of propelling this team forward with it's current slew of stars, and no rookie or backup candidate is going to be more capable to this team than Dak. 

[TheGame316]

1 minute ago, Dallas94Ware said:

No we were not. Because you are arguing against paying him so we can spend more elsewhere but I am not saying anything like that. I explained why they are at an impasse for the moment. But he deserves every cent he is asking for and will get. And it wont restrict the cap or the team to do so. If structured well it wont matter, and this teams top talents are all already paid and locked in. You cant pay every good player. And Dak is capable of propelling this team forward with it's current slew of stars, and no rookie or backup candidate is going to be more capable to this team than Dak. 

Show me how you can structure 4 years 140 Million so that we aren't either 

a)Have a year 1 cap hit that gives us the flexibility to add an extra 10 million dollar player vs Dak's 31 Franchise charge (Get year 1 down to 20 Million)

b)over a barrel after year 3 where we would be forced to renegotiate and give Dak another 100 million on an extension on Dak's terms due to a huge year 4 cap hit

And Go

Can't wait to see it

[Dallas94Ware]

2 minutes ago, TheGame316 said:

Show me how you can structure 4 years 140 Million so that we aren't either 

a)Have a year 1 cap hit that gives us the flexibility to add an extra 10 million dollar player vs Dak's 31 Franchise charge (Get year 1 down to 20 Million)

b)over a barrel after year 3 where we would be forced to renegotiate and give Dak another 100 million on an extension on Dak's terms due to a huge year 4 cap hit

And Go

Can't wait to see it

I am not a cap guru, but we have others on here who can probably show you how. And as I said you can get a lot of info from Francesca if you like. I only know how structure plays a part not how to structure it. I'm more the xs and os guy. But I'm also a realist. Someone who will quickly point out how you repeatedly ignore facts and argue small details, as you are here, to discredit the facts you have no real answer to

[TheGame316]

Just now, Dallas94Ware said:

I am not a cap guru, but we have others on here who can probably show you how. And as I said you can get a lot of info from Francesca if you like. I only know how structure plays a part not how to structure it. I'm more the xs and os guy. But I'm also a realist. Someone who will quickly point out how you repeatedly ignore facts and argue small details, as you are here, to discredit the facts you have no real answer to

Whoa Whoa Whoa

You've been representing yourself here with all this 3 dimensional contract cap talk as someone who understands the subject

If you can't do it, pardon me while I don't accept you lecturing me about it while accusing me of playing Madden

[Matts4313]

2 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

I am not a cap guru, but we have others on here who can probably show you how. And as I said you can get a lot of info from Francesca if you like. I only know how structure plays a part not how to structure it. I'm more the xs and os guy. But I'm also a realist. Someone who will quickly point out how you repeatedly ignore facts and argue small details, as you are here, to discredit the facts you have no real answer to

Its not that complicated really. It will be ~$100m/4 = $25m per year for the signing bonus. That leaves the other $40m to hide in any way you want to. $10m/yr... $40m all in 1 year. Bonuses/roster/workout/whatever. 

Ideally though Dallas would do what the Pats/Saints have been doing and add a ghost 5th year (player voidable). That lowers it to $20m/yr for the signing bonus and allows a lot more flexibility. 

There is a million ways to do it. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Matts4313

[Dallas94Ware]

1 hour ago, TheGame316 said:

Whoa Whoa Whoa

You've been representing yourself here with all this 3 dimensional contract cap talk as someone who understands the subject

If you can't do it, pardon me while I don't accept you lecturing me about it while accusing me of playing Madden

I believe Matt's just explained it above.

And you continue to argue details irrelevant to your point while avoiding the reality of what I and others are trying to tell you. 

Shrug, it is so clear as to why this fan base is often so disliked by others

[WizardHawk]

48 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Its not that complicated really. It will be ~$100m/4 = $25m per year. That leaves the other $40m to hide in any way you want to. $10m/yr... $40m all in 1 year. Bonuses/roster/workout/whatever. 

Ideally though Dallas would do what the Pats/Saints have been doing and add a ghost 5th year (player voidable). That lowers it to $20m/yr for the signing bonus and allows a lot more flexibility. 

There is a million ways to do it. 

I don't understand how some are missing this. The salary cap is manipulated all the time. 

[TheGame316]

16 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

I believe Matt's just explained it above.

And you continue to argue details irrelevant to your point while avoiding the reality of what I and others are trying to tell you. 

Shrug, it is so clear as to why this fan base is often so disliked by others

I read Matts quote and it's wrong. You have to account for that 40 Million somewhere and a ghost 5 year is not the answer. You want to know why? If Dak voids it he can't be franchised and becomes a UFA at the end of the contract

But the reality is the only motivation the Cowboys have to sign Dak is to get the early part of the contract less than the cost of the Franchise tag. If the cap hit (note I'm not saying paid salary) year 1 is say 25 Million, year 2 is 30 million, year 3 is 35 million that would make year 4 - 50 Million for a total of 140 over the 4 years. What happens then is that 50 million number is so unmanageable the Cowboys have to ASK Dak to renegotiate after year 3 to get an extension to lower it. Without an extension the team may be forced to cut multiple players, or cut Dak and make him a UFA. 

Now Dak holds all the cards. He can refuse to renegotiate and have a 50 million cap number where the Cowboys start losing players. He can bank on the Cowboys letting him go and he becomes a UFA in 3 years, or he gets a new contract with another 100 million guaranteed (which would put 240 million in commitments to Dak in just 4 years - The 140 on the original contract and the new 100 million+ committed in the extension)

This why the Cowboys are so adamant about 5 years. It isn't the 33 or 34 or 35 Million per season. They see Dak's game here a mile away. Dak in fact, is probably asking for the structure that gives him the massive year 4 Cap number so he knows the team will have to come to him for an extension in just 3 seasons and he'll have them over a barrel

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by TheGame316

[Matts4313]

27 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

I believe Matt's just explained it above.

And you continue to argue details irrelevant to your point while avoiding the reality of what I and others are trying to tell you. 

Shrug, it is so clear as to why this fan base is often so disliked by others

 

23 minutes ago, WizardHawk said:

I don't understand how some are missing this. The salary cap is manipulated all the time. 

The salary cap... let me rephrase. The way the salary cap is perceived by most is an illusion. The Eagles have been "over the cap" (projected) every year for like 10 years. Theyve managed to win a superbowl and go to the playoffs a ton. They are $50m over for next year. Do you think it will actually mean anything? 

Its all a shell game. And the point @The_Slamman keeps conveniently ignoring it, those players that get cut arent due to the cap. Its due to performance, or rather, value. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Matts4313

[TheGame316]

Just now, Matts4313 said:

 

The salary cap... let me rephrase. The way the salary cap is perceived by most is an illusion. The Eagles have been over the cap every year for like 10 years. Theyve managed to win a superbowl and go to the playoffs a ton. They are $50m over for next year. Do you think it will actually mean anything? 

Its all a shell game. And the point @The_Slamman keeps conveniently ignoring it, those players that get cut arent due to the cap. Its due to performance, or rather, value. 

Whoa

Is that Matts making a reference to a players Value? As in terms of Cap Value? As in the level of play of the player relative to the value of his cap charge?

Dalton @ 3 Million >>> Dak @ 35 Million

Boom - He finally gets it?

[quiller]

8 minutes ago, TheGame316 said:

Whoa

Is that Matts making a reference to a players Value? As in terms of Cap Value? As in the level of play of the player relative to the value of his cap charge?

Dalton @ 3 Million >>> Dak @ 35 Million

Boom - He finally gets it?

Sigh...     I want Dak here as a QB.  But no way would I sign him to a 4 year contract 100 mil guaranteed.   If he wants 100 mil guaranteed he gets a 5 year deal.  If he wants a 4 year deal then 80 guaranteed is my Max. Either way 35 a year is okay for 4 33-34 for 5.    Now I might even go 85 guaranteed over 4. That would be 30-20-20-20

[The_Slamman]

2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

 

The salary cap... let me rephrase. The way the salary cap is perceived by most is an illusion. The Eagles have been "over the cap" (projected) every year for like 10 years. Theyve managed to win a superbowl and go to the playoffs a ton. They are $50m over for next year. Do you think it will actually mean anything? 

Its all a shell game. And the point @The_Slamman keeps conveniently ignoring it, those players that get cut arent due to the cap. Its due to performance, or rather, value. 

BS.  While it’s true the cap can be manipulated, the end always comes.  To this day, I still don’t think Matts understands that signing bonuses apply to future caps... or that a signing bonus is prorated over the length of a contract (up to 5 years).  You restructure a guy to convert base salary into signing bonus... it applies to future caps.  And, YES, we have been in cap hell several times over the years.  The last couple of years have been nice.  we havent had to constantly play the restructure game.  Our cap is pretty clean because of it.  That all changes, though, when you pay QB over $35 per year.