GDT Week 4: LA Rams @ Dallas

[D82]

5 hours ago, The LBC said:

Cookies or we boycott.  And not those crappy oatmeal raisin ones that no one else wants to eat.

Nah. Anything with raisins in it sucks. 

I do sugar cookies...or peanut butter...

[jrry32]

9 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Did someone say their D is better than Arizona's? Based on what? Washington ripped them apart up front. They couldnt cover anything. And cousins was barely touched. 

Rams have a.good unit, a good system, and good players. But a lot of them are out of position, playing new roles, and learning a far more complex playbook than Fisher's garbage. They have Not played well at any point really this year. A few nice plays by individual players. But as a whole? Theyve been pretty bad.

As for their offense -

Stop the playaction. Goff has been killing it off the play Action when  Gurley is running well. Stop Gurley, make the play fake meaningless, and Goff will not look as sharp as the last few weeks.

 

Aren't these two things kind of at odds with each other? As long as Gurley is back there, the play-action isn't meaningless. You either have to put resources into stopping him, which will make the play-action effective even if he isn't, or you have to back off and hope you can win in the trenches.

15 hours ago, WizardHawk said:

Will be watching Havenstien vs DLaw closely. Havenstein is far and away best RT DLaw has lined up against thus far. May be best he lines up against all year. 

Dallas OL vs Rams DL. Dallas OL has looked very average.  Curious to see how Donald performs in Wade's 34 D. 

Dallas D has their work cut out for them. Rams offense is loaded. 

Who would have thought 12 months ago that anyone would be calling the Rams offense loaded?(hell, mediocre would have been a kindness) 

[Dr LBC]

2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Aren't these two things kind of at odds with each other? As long as Gurley is back there, the play-action isn't meaningless. You either have to put resources into stopping him, which will make the play-action effective even if he isn't, or you have to back off and hope you can win in the trenches.

Who would have thought 12 months ago that anyone would be calling the Rams offense loaded?(hell, mediocre would have been a kindness) 

Well, to be fair, our run-blocking is still suspect.  So... that's kind of applicable to both paragraphs.  Kromer's blockign scheme puts heavy emphasis on road-grading guards and... we haven't got those yet (even with Saffold, assuming he can actually stay healthy for once, he was always more adept as a pass-protector than a run-blocker).  If we can manage to lay our hands on just one, it's kind of scary to think what this offense could be capable of.

[Dallas94Ware]

12 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Aren't these two things kind of at odds with each other? As long as Gurley is back there, the play-action isn't meaningless. You either have to put resources into stopping him, which will make the play-action effective even if he isn't, or you have to back off and hope you can win in the trenches.

Who would have thought 12 months ago that anyone would be calling the Rams offense loaded?(hell, mediocre would have been a kindness) 

 Not really. If Gurley is back there but the defense is shutting him down, do you really see the DBs pulling out of position to play the run when they know they havent had to clean up the front sevens mess all game?

The play action isndesigned to pull DBs from their coverage, if even for a step. If the DBs arent worried about having to stop the run, and can count on the front 7, play action is more or less a dead concept.

[quiller]

I thought the play action effected the LB who is responsible for over the middle coverage sucking him toward the line of scrimmage and your free safety sucking him into the middle of the field.   If I am not mistaken okay action can also be stopped by heavy run blitz up the middle or pressure up the middle the guy either stops the run cold or continues to the QB giving zero time for things to develop down field

Till I am very worried about us containing the  run game if they consistently get 5-6 yard first down this will be a long game for the D. The 3 DL D will not work here 

 

[///mcompact]

I hope that Chido is back and we play more man coverage.  Save that soft zone crap for when we have a lead.  Also, swap Tapper for Taco on the 46. 

I think it all comes down to our defense in this game, especially stopping the run before it gets going.  The Rams are going to take more shots deep than any of the other teams we've faced so we really need Byron and Heath to step up their games and support the CBs in coverage better.

I'm not concerned about our offense.  They'll get theirs in this game.

And finally, the ref assigned (Blakeman) is extremely flag happy (flagged us 34/266yds vs. 25/243yds for our opponents in 5 games).   This is what I fear the most. The game becoming a ticky-tacky contest.  It basically comes down to which team makes the least mistakes vs. production.  That doesn't bode well for a team that likes to crawl down the field in 9-10 plays. Can the Dallas O-line stop the bleeding on all of the O-line penalties (and yes...Witten's 1 guaranteed false start per game)? I hope so, as I hate watching games with 20+ flags. Let them play the game!

[matt79511]

I think people are getting a little too worked up over Taco being activated over Tapper last week. I mean, I get it, Tapper looked good against the Giants, but you have to trust the team somewhat, and try to understand their rationale (and maybe not overreact to someone beating up on Ereck Flowers- not a great litmus test).

Taco might not be racking up the stats so far, but I've seen at least two plays in the last two weeks (Lewis' INT in Week 2 and Lawrence's 3rd sack in Week 3) that can at least be attributed in part to Taco's ability to push the guard back into the QB. When you play 3 man lines on passing downs as much as we seem to want to, the ability to push OLs back into the QB's lap is more valuable than speed around the edge. Basically, you have to mix up your skill sets. I think that's what we want from Taco this year.

We'll see how things break down when Irving gets back, but I think having this sort of DL depth is a good problem to have. I mean, compare it to 2013, when 19 different defensive linemen took snaps for us- the only one still left on the team is Kyle Wilber, who's a backup strongside linebacker. Consider how far we've come since then.

[///mcompact]

I would consider swapping them back and forth to see how this shakes out at RDE3. Get that competition brewing like they did last year when they benched Mayowa for a couple of games.  Neither Taco nor Tapper have done enough to establish themselves for that back-up role, so keep shaking that tree, I say. Taco got his shot Monday...give Tapper a shot this Sunday.  We're fortunate to have a healthy line to be able to do this because in year's past, we'd have to count on both of them on the 46.

[Dallas94Ware]

27 minutes ago, quiller said:

I thought the play action effected the LB who is responsible for over the middle coverage sucking him toward the line of scrimmage and your free safety sucking him into the middle of the field.   If I am not mistaken okay action can also be stopped by heavy run blitz up the middle or pressure up the middle the guy either stops the run cold or continues to the QB giving zero time for things to develop down field

Till I am very worried about us containing the  run game if they consistently get 5-6 yard first down this will be a long game for the D. The 3 DL D will not work here 

 

The fake is designed to make all of the defense bite. The linemen "mush" or hold their blocker to shed it for a stop instead of blowing through for a pass rush; the covering linebackers to remain or step toward the shallower depths of their zone in an attempt to drop the ball over them; the DBs to step out of position, especially the safeties, allowing for a larger gap in coverage.

Any of these on any given fake or all of these if your team is succeeding with the run game can aid an offense dramatically. The key is to stop the run and allow safeties to be less "worried" of having to cover the run, so they dont step out of position. The key here is that it is more successful as a whole when the run is working. It can still work when the run is not working, but the whole defense will jump when its working well - thats how you get huge chunk plays off of it.

[quiller]

Thanks for that Ware I have watched football for ever and have a good understanding of the concepts of O and the D.  But mostly I react to what I see in the every day Sunday and one thing I have seen regularly is play action hardly ever works when the other team is heating a hard rush up the middle which in effect either stops the runner cold or eliminates the time the QB has to throw the ball 

as far as this game goes based on what I have seen These last two games we really need to step up our  tackling or their running back is gonna kill is with his ability to mix power with speed either our DL has to slow him down or the support needs to be there.  I think it will be huge miss match if he gets one on one with Smith or Wilson or even The Heath we have seen this year. I am encourage by the way Lewis attacks and finishes the tackle by he might not be strong enough.  Lee really need to revert back to last year or the giants game in this one.   Their recievers also I think show some same qualities as those in Denver only more speed to get deep we have the skill in scan brown jones and Lewis but Brown needs to calm down a bit and maybe stop trying to do too much

still frankly this is one of those games that the offense can win it for the D. Rams can give up plays both running and passing so if we just dominate on the offense then we can put their offense under the gun in which case they might start making mistakes 

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

 Not really. If Gurley is back there but the defense is shutting him down, do you really see the DBs pulling out of position to play the run when they know they havent had to clean up the front sevens mess all game?

The play action isndesigned to pull DBs from their coverage, if even for a step. If the DBs arent worried about having to stop the run, and can count on the front 7, play action is more or less a dead concept.

Yea because the DBs have to be worried about the run with Gurley back there. Even if you're stopping the guy successfully, all it takes is one play to change a game. McVay does an amazing job of scheming to make his passing plays and running plays look nearly identical. It's hard to just ignore Gurley even when he isn't having his best day. We've seen teams with ineffective running games have very effective play-action passing offenses because of that.

[textaz03]

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/09/26/rams-ethan-westbrooks-arrested-stolen-gun/amp/

[DaBoys]

56 minutes ago, textaz03 said:

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/09/26/rams-ethan-westbrooks-arrested-stolen-gun/amp/

Well,  ... Good for us I guess 

[DaBoys]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

Yea because the DBs have to be worried about the run with Gurley back there. Even if you're stopping the guy successfully, all it takes is one play to change a game. McVay does an amazing job of scheming to make his passing plays and running plays look nearly identical. It's hard to just ignore Gurley even when he isn't having his best day. We've seen teams with ineffective running games have very effective play-action passing offenses because of that.

The play action is more effective the more effective your run game is.  Pretty simple concept. Never heard it debated.

[jrry32]

12 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

The play action is more effective the more effective your run game is.  Pretty simple concept. Never heard it debated.

It should be because it's an oversimplification.