Cowboys71 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 This new young Rams coach has them playing with confidence. What worries me the most though is that I am driving from Indy to attend this game. The last 2 times I have made the trip we lost. To the Cards in the playoffs(I am showing my age) and to the Ravens in the final game at Texas stadium. Here is hoping to a Cowboys win and less drama pre-game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 hours ago, jrry32 said: It should be because it's an oversimplification. Okay... Before we start I just want to make sure you understand that my stance is that the PA is more effective the more productive the running game is. Not that it can't be effective at all if the run game isn't. Just that, for seemingly obvious reasons, it(the fake run) will be more persuasive if the defense has fresh examples of punishing runs. That's what you are debating. I suppose you believe that if the run game isn't working it's because the defense is focused on it already. Being a Rams fan that makes sense. But that's because the situation is pre-primed for play action without the need for big runs to get the defense "peeking." And certainly with teams that are already known for explosive runs, coupled w/young QB'ing.... Like the Cowboys and Rams... There is validity to that. As Cowboys fans, we have seen Zeke and the OL face 8-9 in the box and go nowhere, as the PA continues to work. I'm sure the Rams have seen the same. Our teams are actually pretty similar in that regard as the opposing defense will auto-focus on our stud RBs. And they do this with cruelty. But that is typically not the case. For most teams that is not the case, and as the game evolves evermore into a passing league most teams have to create a situation that will maximize the potential of a play action. They do this by getting the run game churning. If they fail to find success against a balanced defensive attack, the play action won't be as persuasive. If they are rolling on the ground the defense will start to creep up, or peek in, or hesitate to back pedal. It's human nature. The DCs may even bring in a heavier set making pass plays in general more effective. All because the run game is working. So I guess if you want to debate, you will need to prove that an effective run game DOES NOT help a play action achieve it's purpose. That, in fact, the fake develops better for an offense with an ineffective run game. For example the David Johnson-less Cardinals should now have a better play action attack. It's long been a perk of losing your star RB. I know you don't believe that, of course. I think D94W is just saying that he hopes we can slow down Gurley without overloading the box, which makes your PAs less effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 On an unrelated note. I doubt we slow down Gurley unless we load up the box a lil. Which Marinelli doesn't really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Okay... Before we start I just want to make sure you understand that my stance is that the PA is more effective the more productive the running game is. Not that it can't be effective at all if the run game isn't. Just that, for seemingly obvious reasons, it(the fake run) will be more persuasive if the defense has fresh examples of punishing runs. That's what you are debating. I suppose you believe that if the run game isn't working it's because the defense is focused on it already. Being a Rams fan that makes sense. But that's because the situation is pre-primed for play action without the need for big runs to get the defense "peeking." And certainly with teams that are already known for explosive runs, coupled w/young QB'ing.... Like the Cowboys and Rams... There is validity to that. As Cowboys fans, we have seen Zeke and the OL face 8-9 in the box and go nowhere, as the PA continues to work. I'm sure the Rams have seen the same. Our teams are actually pretty similar in that regard as the opposing defense will auto-focus on our stud RBs. And they do this with cruelty. But that is typically not the case. For most teams that is not the case, and as the game evolves evermore into a passing league most teams have to create a situation that will maximize the potential of a play action. They do this by getting the run game churning. If they fail to find success against a balanced defensive attack, the play action won't be as persuasive. If they are rolling on the ground the defense will start to creep up, or peek in, or hesitate to back pedal. It's human nature. The DCs may even bring in a heavier set making pass plays in general more effective. All because the run game is working. So I guess if you want to debate, you will need to prove that an effective run game DOES NOT help a play action achieve it's purpose. That, in fact, the fake develops better for an offense with an ineffective run game. For example the David Johnson-less Cardinals should now have a better play action attack. It's long been a perk of losing your star RB. I know you don't believe that, of course. I think D94W is just saying that he hopes we can slow down Gurley without overloading the box, which makes your PAs less effective. And as I said, you're oversimplifying something that isn't black and white. Are we going to pretend that play design doesn't factor in? How about the QB performing the play-action? How about the HB in the back-field? How about the WRs and TEs running the routes? How about the OL blocking? I can tell you that even when Gurley was running the ball well under Fisher, the play-action was very hit and miss. Why? Our QBs sucked, our play designs sucked, and our situational play-calling sucked. McVay's schemes, designs, and calls plays in such a way that makes him play-action very effective even when Gurley isn't tearing it up. Goff, the WRs, the TEs, and the OL have also executed their assignments well. That's why our play-action passing is working. You guys might slow Gurley down. You might shut him down. But that won't guarantee you anything in regards to defending our play-action. It's why you often see QBs ranked among the most effective play-action passers despite not having great running games. IIRC, Philip Rivers was one of the top play-action passers in 2013 despite having a below average at best running game. Can running the ball effectively make your play-action more effective? Certainly. But it doesn't guarantee anything if the rest of the parts to the equation aren't present. Can you still have an effective play-action passing game when you're not running it effectively? Yes. My point here has been that for our play-action passing game to not be effective, you basically have to bottle up Gurley without giving him attention. That's tough to do with the way he's running the football right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Hey Jerr bear, Since you and I had a lengthy conversation about Zeke and twirly Gurley last season, how about some sorta bet for who has the most yards? Sure the Cowboys have a better OL on paper, but they aren't a running team. Scott Linehan refuses to run the ball and refuses to run the ball out of running formations(we are using formations with 2 TEs or 2 RBs 9% less so far in 2017, and Dak is a pass outside the top 10 with just 4 less attempts than Drew Brees Http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000852374/article/qb-index-week-4-dak-prescott-facing-new-challenges ). It's obvious our plan in 2017 was to amp up the passing game. Meanwhile the defense is loading up the box. Dak should be killing it. ...And if you ask his teammates and half the fanbase they'll say he is. Just in a non traditional way. Goff, on the other hand, is 25th in the league in attempts with a whole games worth of throws less than Dak, and Gurley is #1 in rush attempts. You guys are the true running team that our personnel suggests we should be but aren't. But I think our OL and RB are better and I'm feeling froggy so if you would like to make a SIG bet or whatever the new term is going to be for the new site.... I'm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 See Keith Smith is taking reps at LB this week. Lee will be a game time decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Chaz Green missed practice with a hip problem, per David Helman. Against all odds, the man somehow managed to start and finish every one of our games in the month of September. Got to give credit where credit is due. Well done, Chaz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Hey gang do me a favor? I will be at the Jets-Jags this Sunday and wont be able to watch this game. Keep me updated well, will ya? Not just "WOW amazing!" but like actually gimme a hint of what happened? lol Also, as ill be at the Jets game, ill be taking a week off from my halftime thoughts thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 On 9/28/2017 at 5:31 PM, DaBoys said: Hey Jerr bear, Since you and I had a lengthy conversation about Zeke and twirly Gurley last season, how about some sorta bet for who has the most yards? Sure the Cowboys have a better OL on paper, but they aren't a running team. Scott Linehan refuses to run the ball and refuses to run the ball out of running formations(we are using formations with 2 TEs or 2 RBs 9% less so far in 2017, and Dak is a pass outside the top 10 with just 4 less attempts than Drew Brees Http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000852374/article/qb-index-week-4-dak-prescott-facing-new-challenges ). It's obvious our plan in 2017 was to amp up the passing game. Meanwhile the defense is loading up the box. Dak should be killing it. ...And if you ask his teammates and half the fanbase they'll say he is. Just in a non traditional way. Goff, on the other hand, is 25th in the league in attempts with a whole games worth of throws less than Dak, and Gurley is #1 in rush attempts. You guys are the true running team that our personnel suggests we should be but aren't. But I think our OL and RB are better and I'm feeling froggy so if you would like to make a SIG bet or whatever the new term is going to be for the new site.... I'm down. Nah. I have both on my fantasy team, so I hope both do well haha. And if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the Cowboys to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Sigh.. so close to game time... just looked at the the injury report. NOT good ... Green most likely not playing that could be a major issue.. AND no LEE... sigh, we really needed him to help against Gurley. But I noticed Hitchens practiced a little bit this week is there any hope he plays, I thought he was still two weeks away. That would be huge and kinda make up for the loss of Lee if we have Hitchens. Still this team needs to man up and just win. This is one of the few games this year that you look at your schedule and say we better win this one if we are going to be contenders at the end. so... just play a little harder and WIN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 13 hours ago, quiller said: Sigh.. so close to game time... just looked at the the injury report. NOT good ... Green most likely not playing that could be a major issue.. AND no LEE... sigh, we really needed him to help against Gurley. But I noticed Hitchens practiced a little bit this week is there any hope he plays, I thought he was still two weeks away. That would be huge and kinda make up for the loss of Lee if we have Hitchens. Still this team needs to man up and just win. This is one of the few games this year that you look at your schedule and say we better win this one if we are going to be contenders at the end. so... just play a little harder and WIN... I'm not that worried about Green missing game, pretty much used to it at this point. Looking forward to seeing what Cooper can do. Lee sounds unlikely to go, which stings. Hitch is still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
textaz03 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Lee had been ruled out for today ? Damn hamstrings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, textaz03 said: Lee had been ruled out for today ? Damn hamstrings! Yup. Our suspect defense took a massive hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Still don't get it, in regards to DMC and Tapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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