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Trey Lance might be the best QB prospect in the 2021 NFL Draft...


VanS

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2 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

Mayfield also had incredibly incompetent coaching his first couple seasons and is in a new system this year.  So I wouldn't judge his passing numbers too harshly yet.

I'm not bashing Mayfield I just think as of this point he looks like an average starter while Murray looks like he's going to be special. And Murray has definitely been better than Mayfield so far this season. Mayfield's completion % and Y/A both rank 26th in the league so far this season despite having an elite group of weapons around him. 

In the 3 games he has had 30+ attempts he only completed 57% of his passes with 5 TD, 3 INT, and 5.6 Y/A. 

I know that he's in a new system with a weird offseason but their core weapons are the same. And guys like Teddy Bridgewater and Justin Herbert are in similar situations and they've been lighting it up this year. 

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In terms of QBs that Kyle Shannahan has worked with, and if the 49ers miss the playoffs, I feel the 49ers could be the perfect fit for him if they keep Garrapolo. He did design the Robert Griffin rookie year offense which shows he can tailor an offense to a mobile QB, and has shown he can tailor an offense around pocket passers like Matt Ryan and Garrapolo, so if they moved up to get him, they actually have an option to keep him on the bench till he learns the offense, etc

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14 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

Mayfield also had incredibly incompetent coaching his first couple seasons and is in a new system this year.  So I wouldn't judge his passing numbers too harshly yet.

 

I appreciate the fact that you recognized that is wasn't all on Baker the first couple of years, but also as a Browns fan, I don't see much upside outside of being a Garoppolo type of QB in a great scheme. I don't see him winning a game on his own like a Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, or Wilson

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3 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I appreciate the fact that you recognized that is wasn't all on Baker the first couple of years, but also as a Browns fan, I don't see much upside outside of being a Garoppolo type of QB in a great scheme. I don't see him winning a game on his own like a Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, or Wilson

You may be right.  I think we can better judge that as the season goes along and his OL gels more and Baker and his weapons get more comfortable in their new system.

Too early to tell imo.

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3 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

You may be right.  I think we can better judge that as the season goes along and his OL gels more and Baker and his weapons get more comfortable in their new system.

Too early to tell imo.

He's the former #1 overall pick with arguably the best group of weapons around him in the league. And year 2/3 are typically when we see QB's take a big leap. 

 

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28 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

He's the former #1 overall pick with arguably the best group of weapons around him in the league. And year 2/3 are typically when we see QB's take a big leap. 

 

Yes, but we see even established QBs take some real game time to get acclimated to a new offensive scheme when they have a full offseason.  

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24 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Yes, but we see even established QBs take some real game time to get acclimated to a new offensive scheme when they have a full offseason.  

But we've also seen QB's across the league putting up crazy numbers as defenses are behind offenses due to the lack of offseason. And Mayfield is one of a handful of QB's completing less than 62% of his passes, throwing for less than 200 ypg, and averaging less than 7.0 Y/A. 

As I mentioned above in the games he has been asked to throw the ball a lot he has struggled. His 57% comp and 5.7 Y/A from the 3 games he had 30+ passing attempts would both rank dead last in the NFL. 

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13 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

But we've also seen QB's across the league putting up crazy numbers as defenses are behind offenses due to the lack of offseason. And Mayfield is one of a handful of QB's completing less than 62% of his passes, throwing for less than 200 ypg, and averaging less than 7.0 Y/A. 

As I mentioned above in the games he has been asked to throw the ball a lot he has struggled. His 57% comp and 5.7 Y/A from the 3 games he had 30+ passing attempts would both rank dead last in the NFL. 

Yeah, but a lot of those QBs were in an established system.  We have even seen Brady struggle a bit due to being in a new offensive system.  

I'm not saying Mayfield has been very good, just that I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers get better as he gets more familiar with the system.

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7 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Yeah, but a lot of those QBs were in an established system.  We have even seen Brady struggle a bit due to being in a new offensive system.  

I'm not saying Mayfield has been very good, just that I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers get better as he gets more familiar with the system.

Brady's on pace for one of the best years of his career. 

And I'd hope that his numbers get better because you guys just played a pretty soft group of opponents and he's not playing great despite a ton of talent around him. 

Either way though this discussion started because someone said that Mayfield has been better than Murray which isn't even close to true. Murray is on pace for like 5,500 total yards and almost 40 total TD this year. 

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On 10/14/2020 at 7:46 PM, Ragnarok said:

Mayfield also had incredibly incompetent coaching his first couple seasons and is in a new system this year.  So I wouldn't judge his passing numbers too harshly yet.

 

Do you really think Mayfield even warrants this consideration?  I only say this cause I find it hard to believe there are people out there who think Mayfield vs Murray is even up for debate.  They're not in the same class.  Mayfield has arguably the best collection of skill position players in the league and is being called on to be a game manager.  That alone should tell you what his own coaches think of him. 

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On 10/12/2020 at 5:27 PM, NYRaider said:

When you look at the 11 QB's drafted between 2017-2019, the 5 that are elite or look like they will be elite have two common traits: they're extremely mobile/athletic and they have the arm talent to make explosive plays down the field. 

Successful QB's: Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Jackson, Murray

Average QB's: Mayfield, Darnold

Busts: Tribusky, Rosen, Haskins, Jones 

I would flip Jones and Mayfield.  The talent on offense at Cleveland is allowing them to hide Mayfield.  If you put Daniel Jones in his spot I think he would be just as successful if not more.

I think Daniel Jones and Sam Darnold still have the ability to be franchise QBs.  They just aren't good enough to carry a bad team by themselves.

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On 10/12/2020 at 5:27 PM, NYRaider said:

When you look at the 11 QB's drafted between 2017-2019, the 5 that are elite or look like they will be elite have two common traits: they're extremely mobile/athletic and they have the arm talent to make explosive plays down the field. 

Successful QB's: Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Jackson, Murray

Average QB's: Mayfield, Darnold

Busts: Tribusky, Rosen, Haskins, Jones 

Any QB drafted in the first round is going to have the arm talent to make explosive plays down the field. 

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On 10/15/2020 at 7:03 PM, NYRaider said:

Brady's on pace for one of the best years of his career. 

And I'd hope that his numbers get better because you guys just played a pretty soft group of opponents and he's not playing great despite a ton of talent around him. 

Either way though this discussion started because someone said that Mayfield has been better than Murray which isn't even close to true. Murray is on pace for like 5,500 total yards and almost 40 total TD this year. 

100% agree that Murray has been better.

9 hours ago, VanS said:

Do you really think Mayfield even warrants this consideration?  I only say this cause I find it hard to believe there are people out there who think Mayfield vs Murray is even up for debate.  They're not in the same class.  Mayfield has arguably the best collection of skill position players in the league and is being called on to be a game manager.  That alone should tell you what his own coaches think of him. 

His coaches think that they have a very good OL and excellent RBs so they can win running the ball.  If you can win running the ball, there's no reason to throw.  I don't think that's an indictment on Mayfield whatsoever.

I think Murray's elusiveness, quickness, and ability to not get hit by themselves separate him from Mayfield, and that's not even taking into account their mental or other physical abilities.

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5 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

100% agree that Murray has been better.

His coaches think that they have a very good OL and excellent RBs so they can win running the ball.  If you can win running the ball, there's no reason to throw.  I don't think that's an indictment on Mayfield whatsoever.

So you're gonna pretend like last year didn't happen? The Browns aren't playing this way because they think Mayfield can win games for them as a passer and are simply choosing to run the ball instead.  They saw how he flamed out last year and are now trying to hide him.  

And FTR coaches desire balance above all else.  They want to be able to run or throw on any down.  They don't want defenses to find them to be predictable.  No coach wants to be one dimensional willingly because at some point someone might stop your one dimension then what?  

 

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15 minutes ago, VanS said:

So you're gonna pretend like last year didn't happen? The Browns aren't playing this way because they think Mayfield can win games for them as a passer and are simply choosing to run the ball instead.  They saw how he flamed out last year and are now trying to hide him.  

And FTR coaches desire balance above all else.  They want to be able to run or throw on any down.  They don't want defenses to find them to be predictable.  No coach wants to be one dimensional willingly because at some point someone might stop your one dimension then what?  

 

Or they are going with the easier plan to win games.  

No, given the chance to run or pass, they always want to run.  If they could run every down, they would.  You have to have balance, but would prefer to run.

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