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Trey Lance might be the best QB prospect in the 2021 NFL Draft...

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Would be great to see him succeed no doubt but might need to wait and see how he does with another year or two of performance.  For him to consider entering the draft at this point would be a mistake.  The last thing he needs is some Johnny Football type hype machine to surround him.

Well it's a little late for him to enter the 2020 draft, so he's gonna have another year of performance.

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2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

That’s not true at all.

That's simply my opinion as I already believe he has high level NFL talent.  For example, a lot of people made a big deal of Josh Allen struggling against FBS teams in 2018 and used that to claim he would be a bust.  I watched those same games and thought he looked great but had bad numbers because his teammates were overwhelmed and could not help him.

If a guy can play, then he can play.  Level of competition doesn't make a difference to the eye test.  All it does is effect stats (which I never really look at when evaluating prospects). 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, VanS said:

That's simply my opinion as I already believe he has high level NFL talent.  For example, a lot of people made a big deal of Josh Allen struggling against FBS teams in 2018 and used that to claim he would be a bust.  I watched those same games and thought he looked great but had bad numbers because his teammates were overwhelmed and could not help him.

If a guy can play, then he can play.  Level of competition doesn't make a difference to the eye test.  All it does is effect stats (which I never really look at when evaluating prospects). 

Level of play absolutely makes a difference, I’d expect even you can surmise that. 

A prospect playing well vs future insurance salesmen is going to play a lot differently than a prospect vs future NFLers, and that applies on every level. You would expect Stephon Gilmore to shut down trash receivers, but put him against a team of All-Pro’s and he likely wouldn’t fair quite as well. PJ Walker was throwing dimes in the XFL, but couldn’t even make an NFL roster. Ask an offense to play the 32nd ranked defense 16 times, then ask them to play the 1st ranked offense 16 times - you’d see a big difference in play, not just numbers. 

With this in mind, you’d also assume that DII or DIII players offer no challenges in evaluating, because level of competition doesn’t matter, right? 

Edited by Yin-Yang
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3 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Level of play absolutely makes a difference, I’d expect even you can surmise that. 

A prospect playing well vs future insurance salesmen is going to play a lot differently than a prospect vs future NFLers, and that applies on every level. You would expect Stephon Gilmore to shut down trash receivers, but put him against a team of All-Pro’s and he likely wouldn’t fair quite as well. PJ Walker was throwing dimes in the XFL, but couldn’t even make an NFL roster. Ask an offense to play the 32nd ranked defense 16 times, then ask them to play the 1st ranked offense 16 times - you’d see a big difference in play, not just numbers. 

With this in mind, you’d also assume that DII or DIII players offer no challenges in evaluating, because level of competition doesn’t matter, right? 

I guess I just focus on different things than most when it comes to evaluating a prospect.  I don't really focus on what a prospect does against an opponent.  I only focus on the prospect and his skill set.  For a QB, its his size, athleticism, arm strength, and ability to make NFL caliber throws on a consistent basis.  With RBs, its size, build, explosiveness, vision, balance, ability to make people miss and break tackles.  And so on with each position.

The end result of what they do against the opponent rarely matters to me.  Its how I came away being impressed with Josh Allen in 2018 after watching his game against Iowa where he put up lousy numbers and everyone was trying to use as evidence he was overrated and a surefire bust.  I looked at the same tape and was blown away by his size, arm strength, athleticism, amd playmaking ability.  The fact he didn't have success on the stat sheet against a superior opponent meant little to me.  I watched his o-line get whipped every play and his receivers getting zero separation causing him to have to take risks just to make first downs.  The level of competition didn't matter to my evaluation.  All I needed to see was what Josh Allen could do physically.  The fact he played well or bad that day meant nothing. 

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Donovan McNabb was ******* terrible.

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22 minutes ago, VanS said:

I guess I just focus on different things than most when it comes to evaluating a prospect.  I don't really focus on what a prospect does against an opponent.  I only focus on the prospect and his skill set.  For a QB, its his size, athleticism, arm strength, and ability to make NFL caliber throws on a consistent basis.  With RBs, its size, build, explosiveness, vision, balance, ability to make people miss and break tackles.  And so on with each position.

The end result of what they do against the opponent rarely matters to me.  Its how I came away being impressed with Josh Allen in 2018 after watching his game against Iowa where he put up lousy numbers and everyone was trying to use as evidence he was overrated and a surefire bust.  I looked at the same tape and was blown away by his size, arm strength, athleticism, amd playmaking ability.  The fact he didn't have success on the stat sheet against a superior opponent meant little to me.  I watched his o-line get whipped every play and his receivers getting zero separation causing him to have to take risks just to make first downs.  The level of competition didn't matter to my evaluation.  All I needed to see was what Josh Allen could do physically.  The fact he played well or bad that day meant nothing. 

So again with DII and even DIII - you don’t view the lower level of competition as a challenge at all in regards? 

“Ability to make people miss and break tackles”, very environment dependent. Maybe the guy runs through Alabama and only ever has to make cuts when he’s only got one man to beat (Richardson), or maybe his CFB explosiveness doesn’t translate to NFL explosiveness (Michel). Reggie Bush has a skill set any RB would die for - didn’t translate. There’s a litany of examples of this, and you know that. Especially at QB, where coaching, scheme, and talent around him can greatly influence how he works as a pro. 

And Josh Allen isn’t really someone to write home about. He’s still not a great passer at this point (but improving). 

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9 hours ago, Klomp said:

Well it's a little late for him to enter the 2020 draft, so he's gonna have another year of performance.

I am saying even if he is entertaining that thought right now in May 2020 about the 2021 draft it would be a mistake.  Maybe after an even better season's performance this up coming year, that is one thing, but to have those kind of expectations at this point, well would be foolish yet it is already out there.  He does have a quick release, squares his lower body up well on the move to throw, clearly makes good choices with the football etc.

Still what is the rush in a loaded QB room in the NFL?  Say zero top level QBs retried, there is simply not many openings at that point, why not stick around till his RS JR season and also graduate ontop of that.  Who will need a QB in 2021, got Lawrence and Fields and who do they even go to?  New England maybe maybe not, Chicago maybe maybe not, Dallas maybe maybe not.  There is simply not much need for QBs right now to be honest, I thought that last year after the 2019 draft and it is even more packed this season after the 2020 draft.

Cam Newton, Joe Flacco, Mike Glennon, Blake Bortles, Joe Webb, Brandon Allen, Cody Kessler, Trevor Siemian, Matt Moore, Kyle Sloter etc are all currently unsigned QBs.  

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Your takes are something else lol

 

Right now, dude is an athlete looking good against future insurance salesmen. That doesn't mean much.  We'll see this season and as someone alluded to, against Oregon

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6 hours ago, Elky said:

Donovan McNabb was ******* terrible.

Overrated? Yes. Terrible? No.

Sincerely an Eagles fan who dislikes McNabb.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Danger said:

Overrated? Yes. Terrible? No.

Sincerely an Eagles fan who dislikes McNabb.

McNabb was good from 98-04. 05 and onwards he became their biggest liability.

Edited by Elky

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2 hours ago, Elky said:

McNabb was good from 98-04. 05 and onwards he became their biggest liability.

He had a couple of solid seasons with DeSean in 08 and 09, but he definitely wasn't the same after he tore his ACL in 05.

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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 3:32 PM, VanS said:

Lance and Lawrence look a level up above fields IMO.  So it doesn't really matter how much more productive Fields becomes.  He will need to improve his skill set throwing the ball for me to elevate him

Explain how do you improve his skills throwing the ball if the ball goes right to the receiver's hands, I swear guys just type things without actually thinking about what they are saying....

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