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Trey Lance might be the best QB prospect in the 2021 NFL Draft...

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4 hours ago, Daniel said:

See, Chance Warmack was a sad case of overhyping and people ignoring red flags that were there.  Warmack had good tape, but tape isn't everything, especially on the offensive line.  If you watched enough of it, you would see him lose reps, and more often than he should to be the god-tier OG prospect he was touted as, but those got little attention because he was on a stacked Bama team, and those losses rarely had any consequences.  He might get beat by a DL, but the ball was already past the LOS by that time.

Furthermore, he was propped between DJ Fluker and Barrett Jones, who were both also excellent players.

And lastly, the RBs he blocked for were Trent Richardson, who broke half the tackles that came his way, and TJ Yeldon, who was pretty beasty himself.

The thing that should have been the nail in his coffin as a prospect was the combine.  He didn't look bad in the drills, IIRC, but he didn't show much athleticism.  In fact, he was one of the slowest guards that tested.  And if you're a guard without elite, or at the very least, above average athleticism, you're not a top prospect.  Even without the benefit of hindsight, selecting him in the top 10 was a stupid move.

OK, now he actually got me.

Really? I’ll take your word for it, but I remember Warmack (and Cooper) being blown up as can’t-miss, surefire prospects. Never really noticed anyone pick holes in the game like that until after the fact. 

Was more just poking fun at the Nelson comment but good to know!

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2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Really? I’ll take your word for it, but I remember Warmack (and Cooper) being blown up as can’t-miss, surefire prospects. Never really noticed anyone pick holes in the game like that until after the fact. 

Was more just poking fun at the Nelson comment but good to know!

Agreed, Warmack and Cooper was crazy high picks and both were considered cannot miss prospects, why else would they be picked so high as a guard.  Sure Warmack was probably a little overrated coming out of Alabama and the focus put on those prospects, but Cooper was really good on UNC and surprising he was that bad in the NFL.  

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29 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Really? I’ll take your word for it, but I remember Warmack (and Cooper) being blown up as can’t-miss, surefire prospects. Never really noticed anyone pick holes in the game like that until after the fact. 

Was more just poking fun at the Nelson comment but good to know!

You are correct.  Groupthink can be a hell of a thing.  I, at least, saw the red flags ahead of time, and was very vocal about it being a bad decision.

That said, I didn't think he'd be the huge bust that he was, but I thought he was a Day 2 prospect.

I have been wrong about a lot of things, but Chance Warmack is not one of them.

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4 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

Then you didn't watch him in KC.  He was a 3 time first team All-Pro.

I did watch him and I know his accomplishments.  I simply expected more.  It might sound crazy but I thought he would be even better. 

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On 5/8/2020 at 9:37 AM, ScoDucks823 said:

Our defense is going to be a really solid test for both (as well as the opposite direction). 

Your defense is stacked with good players 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2020 at 11:03 PM, VanS said:

I would say he is doing very well in the NFL.

His team is doing well especially the defense.  Allen is not a bust however lets not go over board with game.  If you mean "well"  as in starting QB. I agree but I have yet to see anything special. He still has a way to go before any team fears him.

Now Bills defense is a whole other matter. IMO that what people fear when they look at the Bills.

Edited by m haynes

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Posted (edited)
On 5/8/2020 at 10:57 PM, VanS said:

I did watch him and I know his accomplishments.  I simply expected more.  It might sound crazy but I thought he would be even better. 

I agree with this and I'm a huge Chiefs/EB fan.  

Eric Berry is to this day is the best safety prospect I have ever seen.  He was so natural and had zero holes in his game.  I seen him as a more physical Ed Reed. 

He had a great career but even before the cancer he didn't meet my expectations.  He wasn't great in coverage, was awful at covering TE's, and somehow transformed to a more in the box safety type.  A lot of that I blame on our coaching staff. 

SideNote: Under my previous username "Bigballin". I predicted on here that the Chiefs would select Eric Berry at #5 the October before the draft.  I still believe I deserve an award for knowing both the pick and the player at that time. 

Edited by warsawian
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1 hour ago, warsawian said:

I agree with this and I'm a huge Chiefs/EB fan.  

Eric Berry is to this day is the best safety prospect I have ever seen.  He was so natural and had zero holes in his game.  I seen him as a more physical Ed Reed. 

He had a great career but even before the cancer he didn't meet my expectations.  He wasn't great in coverage, was awful at covering TE's, and somehow transformed to a more in the box safety type.  A lot of that I blame on our coaching staff. 

Agreed.  I was also shocked by how he transformed from an Ed Reed type ballhawk in college who was also physical into a box safety.

I was so sure he was going to be a generational player.  He's one of the players I feel I missed on the most despite having a good career simply because I thought he would be so much more.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/8/2020 at 2:07 PM, Ozzy said:

So what.  Earl Thomas was a 3 time first team All-Pro as well, was also a 7 time Pro bowler and Super bowl champion.  To me Earl Thomas was more physical in college and in the NFL.  Berry was physical but clearly Earl Thomas's body could take it, he missed far less games in his career than Berry did.  Only one season did Thomas miss significant game action, Berry was like every two years he would miss almost a full season.  To me being physical is also about playing and being out there, physically holding up and Berry simply never did that.   Great player no doubt and as a prospect coming out of college was one of the best at his position in the last 20 years, but do not give me this Earl Thomas is not physical as a safety bull.  Earl has great range no doubt but he did play on a team with Kam Chancellor, so you saying Kam was the deep safety in that regard?  No, but if given the chance to be more of a SS type Earl could have done it.  

Lol so if I'm reading this right, Berry's body couldn't take the physicality as well as Thomas's, which is why Berry missed significant time with Hodgkins Lymphoma? Maybe Berry was just incredibly unlucky? 

Berry- Torn ACL, Cancer, Ruptured Achilles (Haglunds deformity) 

Thomas- Broken Tibia 2016, Broken Tibia 2018  

Had Thomas broken his Tibia earlier in the season in 2016, he would have missed significantly more time. Both players had 2 significant injuries during their career (Berry's were a bit worse), Berry just had far worse luck with when his happened, and also had cancer along the way. Seems like a bad argument to say Thomas's body could handle the physicality, but Berry's couldn't. If I'm not mistaken Berry's injury's were non-contact injuries. Thomas's injury's were literally due to the physicality of the game breaking his leg while trying to make plays. 

Berry is probably the most talented Safety prospect I've seen in 20 years. Shame how unlucky he has been as he undoubtedly had HOF potential. 

Edited by tyler735

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30 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Lol so if I'm reading this right, Berry's body couldn't take the physicality as well as Thomas's, which is why Berry missed significant time with Hodgkins Lymphoma? Maybe Berry was just incredibly unlucky? 

Berry- Torn ACL, Cancer, Ruptured Achilles (Haglunds deformity) 

Thomas- Broken Tibia 2016, Broken Tibia 2018  

Had Thomas broken his Tibia earlier in the season in 2016, he would have missed significantly more time. Both players had 2 significant injuries during their career (Berry's were a bit worse), Berry just had far worse luck with when his happened, and also had cancer along the way. Seems like a bad argument to say Thomas's body could handle the physicality, but Berry's couldn't. If I'm not mistaken Berry's injury's were non-contact injuries. Thomas's injury's were literally due to the physicality of the game breaking his leg while trying to make plays. 

Berry is probably the most talented Safety prospect I've seen in 20 years. Shame how unlucky he has been as he undoubtedly had HOF potential. 

Berry is the most talented safety you have seen in 20 years?  Did not watch Sean Taylor much did you then especially that JR season.  Because he was a better player and was absolutely more physically rare with his combination of size, hitting ability and overall coverage ability.  Sean Taylor #1 all the way, Ed Reed probably #2 at the position of FS then maybe Berry but again I would have Earl Thomas the slight nod over him but very close.  Berry was an amazing prospect but no way to me he was better than Sean Taylor someone who was bigger, stronger and a better combination of tackling and coverage.

 

Bad luck for Berry no doubt but his pro career because of the injuries was clearly a disappointment no doubt about it.  Earl Thomas probably makes the HOF because he was more fortunate and played more games, Eric Berry is not a HOF safety because of that.  Earl Thomas started 140 games and is still going, Eric Berry started 87 and his career is finished.  

 

Berry was great but to me Earl Thomas was just as great and obviously is far better as a pro because of longevity.  Sean Taylor died young but he was poised to be a HOF player I feel, still as a prospect he is head and shoulders above any safety I have seen in terms of potential and rare size.  Doing what he did on the football field at 6-3 225 is insane and to me puts him over the rest.

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Berry is the most talented safety you have seen in 20 years?  Did not watch Sean Taylor much did you then especially that JR season.  Because he was a better player and was absolutely more physically rare with his combination of size, hitting ability and overall coverage ability.  Sean Taylor #1 all the way, Ed Reed probably #2 at the position of FS then maybe Berry but again I would have Earl Thomas the slight nod over him but very close.  Berry was an amazing prospect but no way to me he was better than Sean Taylor someone who was bigger, stronger and a better combination of tackling and coverage.

Yep watched Sean Taylor. Taylor was obviously up there as well, but I think Berry was better coming out of college. Taylor was bigger and a harder hitter, which I suppose was a bit more important than it is in today's NFL back when Taylor was coming into the league. I definitely liked Berry's coverage ability and overall instincts more though. Berry was quicker and more explosive than Taylor and showed the ability to hold his own playing both Safety and CB. As mentioned Taylor was bigger and a harder hitter, but I don't know that he was a better tackler than Berry in terms of consistent tackling. Doubt either of us are going to change stances on this as both of them are widely regarded as 2 of the best Safety prospects of the past 20 years.

 

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Bad luck for Berry no doubt but his pro career because of the injuries was clearly a disappointment no doubt about it.  Earl Thomas probably makes the HOF because he was more fortunate and played more games, Eric Berry is not a HOF safety because of that.  Earl Thomas started 140 games and is still going, Eric Berry started 87 and his career is finished.  

Yeah Thomas probably will make the HOF, but again that is more bad luck than anything for Berry not being a HOF player. Despite all the crap he's gone through during his NFL career he has still been a 1st team All Pro 3 times, and a 5 time Pro-Bowler. How many players have had to deal with cancer during the peak of their career, and not only come back from it, but still remain an All Pro caliber player after it. He's had a very unique career path. That said, the previous argument was that Thomas handles the physicality of the game better than Berry, but I just can't agree with that given the reasons both have missed time throughout their careers.

 

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On 5/17/2020 at 7:29 AM, warsawian said:

I agree with this and I'm a huge Chiefs/EB fan.  

Eric Berry is to this day is the best safety prospect I have ever seen.  He was so natural and had zero holes in his game.  I seen him as a more physical Ed Reed. 

He had a great career but even before the cancer he didn't meet my expectations.  He wasn't great in coverage, was awful at covering TE's, and somehow transformed to a more in the box safety type.  A lot of that I blame on our coaching staff. 

SideNote: Under my previous username "Bigballin". I predicted on here that the Chiefs would select Eric Berry at #5 the October before the draft.  I still believe I deserve an award for knowing both the pick and the player at that time. 

 

On 5/17/2020 at 8:34 AM, VanS said:

Agreed.  I was also shocked by how he transformed from an Ed Reed type ballhawk in college who was also physical into a box safety.

I was so sure he was going to be a generational player.  He's one of the players I feel I missed on the most despite having a good career simply because I thought he would be so much more.

 

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Berry is the most talented safety you have seen in 20 years?  Did not watch Sean Taylor much did you then especially that JR season.  Because he was a better player and was absolutely more physically rare with his combination of size, hitting ability and overall coverage ability.  Sean Taylor #1 all the way, Ed Reed probably #2 at the position of FS then maybe Berry but again I would have Earl Thomas the slight nod over him but very close.  Berry was an amazing prospect but no way to me he was better than Sean Taylor someone who was bigger, stronger and a better combination of tackling and coverage.

 

Bad luck for Berry no doubt but his pro career because of the injuries was clearly a disappointment no doubt about it.  Earl Thomas probably makes the HOF because he was more fortunate and played more games, Eric Berry is not a HOF safety because of that.  Earl Thomas started 140 games and is still going, Eric Berry started 87 and his career is finished.  

 

Berry was great but to me Earl Thomas was just as great and obviously is far better as a pro because of longevity.  Sean Taylor died young but he was poised to be a HOF player I feel, still as a prospect he is head and shoulders above any safety I have seen in terms of potential and rare size.  Doing what he did on the football field at 6-3 225 is insane and to me puts him over the rest.

 

11 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Yep watched Sean Taylor. Taylor was obviously up there as well, but I think Berry was better coming out of college. Taylor was bigger and a harder hitter, which I suppose was a bit more important than it is in today's NFL back when Taylor was coming into the league. I definitely liked Berry's coverage ability and overall instincts more though. Berry was quicker and more explosive than Taylor and showed the ability to hold his own playing both Safety and CB. As mentioned Taylor was bigger and a harder hitter, but I don't know that he was a better tackler than Berry in terms of consistent tackling. Doubt either of us are going to change stances on this as both of them are widely regarded as 2 of the best Safety prospects of the past 20 years.

 

Yeah Thomas probably will make the HOF, but again that is more bad luck than anything for Berry not being a HOF player. Despite all the crap he's gone through during his NFL career he has still been a 1st team All Pro 3 times, and a 5 time Pro-Bowler. How many players have had to deal with cancer during the peak of their career, and not only come back from it, but still remain an All Pro caliber player after it. He's had a very unique career path. That said, the previous argument was that Thomas handles the physicality of the game better than Berry, but I just can't agree with that given the reasons both have missed time throughout their careers.

 

Wow, you guys are right, maybe Eric Berry will be the first QB drafted in 2021!

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7 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

Wow, you guys are right, maybe Eric Berry will be the first QB drafted in 2021!

Honestly it was probably the best discussion to be had in this thread at this point..

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2 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Honestly it was probably the best discussion to be had in this thread at this point..

Agreed, Trey Lance has not even completely his RS SOPH season and honestly might not even get the chance to do so.  And people are talking about him as a top 5 pick or 1st overall pick?  Yeah maybe that would make a lot more sense if it was the discussion for the 2022 draft.

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As a Vols fan, I'll never discourage Eric Berry discussion in this forum.

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