2021 Draft Talk

[SemperFeist]

30 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

They would be trading away his contract.

Would they though? How many teams are going to trade for 1 year, $35M guaranteed? 

Edited November 19, 2020 by SemperFeist

[swede700]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

You are aware of why Bridgewater fell in the draft, right?

skinny knees.

[Cearbhall]

1 minute ago, SemperFeist said:

Would they though? How many teams are going to trade for 1 year, $35M guaranteed? 

There will be teams looking for a veteran QB to hold the position. There always are teams looking for that. I don't think the terms of the trade would be leaving that team paying Cousins $35. If a team would do that, it would be great for the Vikings. That is not a requirement at all.

[SemperFeist]

2 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

I don't think the terms of the trade would be leaving that team paying Cousins $35.

The team will already be eating a $10M hit if they trade him after 2021. Eating any more of his guaranteed salary just adds to the cap, and then you’re back to defeating the purpose of having a young starter on a rookie contract.

[twslhs20]

2 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

The team will already be eating a $10M hit if they trade him after 2021. Eating any more of his guaranteed salary just adds to the cap, and then you’re back to defeating the purpose of having a young starter on a rookie contract.

Cousins contract is sunk cost. It should have no influence on future decisions.

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

And turning Cousins into a two year lame duck QB isn’t good for the locker room. 

Not sure that continuing the current path is the solution either.  They're good enough that they're probably not going to be within striking distance of getting an upper echelon QB prospect, and they're probably not good enough to be a true Super Bowl contender.

[Cearbhall]

1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

The team will already be eating a $10M hit if they trade him after 2021. Eating any more of his guaranteed salary just adds to the cap, and then you’re back to defeating the purpose of having a young starter on a rookie contract.

Cousins will be eating $45M of the cap if they don't trade him. I would way rather the Vikings eat $20M of cap space by paying $10M of his salary as part of the trade. Saving $25M would not defeat the purpose of having a young starter on a rookie contract. First, the team is still saving $25M. Also, lets not forget the the real reason to have a young starter is not to save money but to find a long-term QB of the future.

Cousins presence should in no way detract from the teams search for a QBOTF. The only reason it should is if the team thinks that Cousins is the QBOTF. If they think that, I want them fired.

Who am I kidding? I want Spielman fired regardless. A requirement of the job for any candidate should be a plan to find a QBOTF. If their plan is to stick with Kirk Cousins they should not be hired.

[vikingsrule]

32 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

Cousins will be eating $45M of the cap if they don't trade him. I would way rather the Vikings eat $20M of cap space by paying $10M of his salary as part of the trade. Saving $25M would not defeat the purpose of having a young starter on a rookie contract. First, the team is still saving $25M. Also, lets not forget the the real reason to have a young starter is not to save money but to find a long-term QB of the future.

Cousins presence should in no way detract from the teams search for a QBOTF. The only reason it should is if the team thinks that Cousins is the QBOTF. If they think that, I want them fired.

Who am I kidding? I want Spielman fired regardless. A requirement of the job for any candidate should be a plan to find a QBOTF. If their plan is to stick with Kirk Cousins they should not be hired.

Spielman’s played a huge part in front offices that thought Ponder, Bridgewater, Bradford and Cousins were QBOTF based on what was given up to acquire these players. It baffles me that a GM gets so many chances at finding the right guy and has mostly failed doing so (not calling Teddy a failure but at the same time, I don’t think many had confidence he’d ever be anything better than a fringe top 15 QB).

[swede700]

5 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

Spielman’s played a huge part in front offices that thought Ponder, Bridgewater, Bradford and Cousins were QBOTF based on what was given up to acquire these players. It baffles me that a GM gets so many chances at finding the right guy and has mostly failed doing so (not calling Teddy a failure but at the same time, I don’t think many had confidence he’d ever be anything better than a fringe top 15 QB).

I'm not sure anyone has ever suggested that Bradford and Cousins were considered QBOTF (I guess depending upon your definition)...Cousins was the QB that was supposed to get them over the top, while Bradford was to get them through a year or 2, depending upon what happened with Teddy.

Ponder is, by far, the biggest failure of an attempt, but Leslie had a lot to do with that as well, since Spielman wasn't the GM at that point.  

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by swede700

[Cearbhall]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

Ponder is, by far, the biggest failure of an attempt, but Leslie had a lot to do with that as well, since Spielman wasn't the GM at that point.

Are you suggesting a career defensive coach should get more credit for the first round QB pick than Rick Spielman who was the Vice President of Football operations at the time with enough juice in the organization to shortly thereafter be promoted to GM?

I have no problem assigning credit for Christian Ponder to Rick Spielman. I find that to be much more reasonable than giving Leslie Frazier credit.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Cearbhall

[swede700]

1 hour ago, Cearbhall said:

Are yo suggesting a career defensive coach should get more credit for the first round QB pick than Rick Spielman who was the Vice President of Football operations at the time with enough juice in the organization to shortly thereafter be promoted to GM?

I have no problem assigning credit for Christian Ponder to Rick Spielman. I find that to be much more reasonable than giving Leslie Frazier credit.

Well, at the time and the way the organization was structured, yes, it was more Frazier, as Childress did right before him, had the ability to override the rest of the Triangle when he wanted a certain pick.  

[Cearbhall]

3 minutes ago, swede700 said:

Well, at the time and the way the organization was structured, yes, it was more Frazier, as Childress did right before him, had the ability to override the rest of the Triangle when he wanted a certain pick.  

Do you have any evidence at all to support the claim that Frazier had the ability to override the rest of the Triangle? That claim is unbelievable on the surface.

[PrplChilPill]

If there is a QB they truly believe in, they should pick him, even if it costs them some picks to do so.

If not, or the price is high and they think there is one, but aren't 100% sold on him (in their opinion), then OL or DL should be the pick. Not having a 2nd really hurts getting an OG, given how terrible they are at picking OL after round 2 under this GM. Terrible. Not shockingly, I suggest OL is the right pick (or FA target). It makes Cook even better, and gives Kirk more time to wait for Jefferson to get open. Plus, they have success picking DL later......

[vikingsrule]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

I'm not sure anyone has ever suggested that Bradford and Cousins were considered QBOTF (I guess depending upon your definition)...Cousins was the QB that was supposed to get them over the top, while Bradford was to get them through a year or 2, depending upon what happened with Teddy.

Ponder is, by far, the biggest failure of an attempt, but Leslie had a lot to do with that as well, since Spielman wasn't the GM at that point.  

 

Given the contracts (two) that Cousins received, i think it was implied he’d be the QBOTF. He was signed in his late 20s, which is prime years for a QB. So it’s completely reasonable to make the assumption that Cousins was the planned QB for the next 5+ years. 

as for Bradford, if he’s not viewed as the QBOTF, it should be viewed as a fireable offense to try and salvage a season by throwing a first round pick at an injury prone QB who failed to stick with two other teams. They should have ridden the season out with Hill, accepted the downgrade, and they’d now be reaping the benefits of Mahomes or Watson under center. But there was that obvious annoyance of having to be good that first year in the new stadium to save face for ripping off MN tax payers.

[Cearbhall]

14 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

as for Bradford, if he’s not viewed as the QBOTF, it should be viewed as a fireable offense to try and salvage a season by throwing a first round pick at an injury prone QB who failed to stick with two other teams. 

Agreed 1000%

Also, I don't think they gave a QB a three year fully guaranteed $84M contract if they didn't expect him to be QBOTF.  However, if they were thinking that, they were wrong. Kirk Cousins is not the answer.