SteelKing728 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 USC #75 just like Matt Kalil! What? Whaaat?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 5 hours ago, SteelKing728 said: USC #75 just like Matt Kalil! What? Whaaat?!?!? NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 PTSD. Post-Turnstile-Stress-Disorder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 10 hours ago, ArcticNorseman said: I like Bradbury at Center, but yes, he did get pushed back by some of the bigger NTs. He's very smart and excellent at getting to the 2nd level, which is part of what makes the run game good. I also believe, if we watch as much film as the teams do, we'd see Cousins does quite well when there's no pressure up the middle. I don't know if he was the most pressured QB in the league, but he was top-5 for sure . . . and he still had decent numbers -- except for the interceptions and fumbles (yes, I know what that says). He gets paid to win, lead the team to win. The O-line is a massively critical part of that. If those 5 can't handle 4, which they routinely do not, how can we as fans really blame every body but the big boys up front and the O-line coach. I feel like Reiff has done ok-better-than-average this year, but I don't know how well his contract works in this upcoming major cut to the salary cap (another topic, but how many retirements will that force?). O'Neill got beat a few times this year, basically once every 2 or 3 games? I'll take that all day long . . . Samia got be 2-3 times a quarter. Wyatt Davis might just be the guy to consider at the Vikes first pic, but there are several to truly consider -- then weigh that against the DTs the Vikes need. Then again, maybe there's a game day trade where Barr is sent off for a 2nd or late 1st and then Zaven Collins or Micah Parsons is sitting there. Seems like there's a bunch of mid-round 330-lbers, so those guys intrigue me. Put beef on beef at the OG spots . . . I mean how many QB sneaks do other teams run at 4th and 6 inches? The Vikes? Nope, we gotta run some stupid whatever and get stuffed. The final guys I'd like to see are the unreal mid-late-round OTs . . . that tiny-tot from UM (Faalele) would be awesome to put out there in a heavy package. There's a guy from Washington State that did pretty well at 6' 7" and 330-ish, plus several other guys in that size range . . . would be good to see some strength join the ranks. I know Kubiak wants athletic, fast O-linemen, but we can't have that if they can't get low and hold ground. I would love some bigger dudes but like others have said they have to be athletic or the Vikings will not pick them. Plenty of big dudes fit the bill but most of the best are tackles so that could be an issue. Carman and Mayfield come to mind in the 1st round who are big and athletic so could fit. I am just sick of the center getting pushed around, sure he is good but who says he could not be good at guard and get someone stronger at the point of attack. The run game is great with these guys no question, but that does not matter as much if the QB gets killed every game when he goes back to pass. Abraham Lucas on Washington State I like, he is a big guy but a decent athlete and I would not hate getting him. Faalele is coming back to school I believe, maybe not but did obviously miss all this season with an injury I assume but not even sure that was the case. They just need more talent on the OL and I think they will get it. In terms of later round guys on the OL I would love Landon Dickerson but he could be gone in the 2nd but maybe would be around in the 3rd, his attitude is awesome and is a very aggressive player. Zion Johnson I would like 3rd round or later because of his OT and OG versatility. Royce Newman is a mauler and could be a great value 3rd round or later, same with Dan Moore Jr who also has OT and OG versatility. Then there is Conner Olson who can play C or OG and could fit right in and be around 4th or 5th round maybe even later, but he can play and would be a nice developmental backup. Creed Humphrey has not played great this year, hyped player but he could be around 2nd round if they trade up, but I would rather have Trey Hill who has OG versatility and is a little stronger it seems. Brett Heggie I like from Florida and he could be a steal later on in the draft, or Cade Stewart on Clemson could be a nice developmental backup center if they want one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 If Barmore declares he’s going to be a popular pick for the Vikings in mock drafts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: If Barmore declares he’s going to be a popular pick for the Vikings in mock drafts. I like Barmore a lot, but Raekwon Davis looked good as a SOPH as well, Barmore being a RS SOPH. He might be more of a 3/4 DE though, has as much upside as any defensive tackle in the draft no question. If Twyman played this season he would be ranked higher but he did not so he will have to impress with his workouts. Will be curious if he comes out early, sure if they win the National Championship that could easily happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 14 hours ago, Viking Penguin said: If we win Sunday, I'll lose the rest of any hope I have for current management and the mid future of this team. Gonna be tough to move up much more than a few slots. Assuming Minnesota does indeed lose to Detroit, it goes to SOS and the Lions have a slightly worse SOS right now. It's close enough it could flip though. The NY Giants and Cowboys are playing each other, and the winner picks later. Carolina plays New Orleans who is still playing for the #1 seed, so a likely loss. The Broncos play the Raiders. The Raiders are reeling so it's a toss-up here. LA Chargers are playing Chiefs who have locked HFA, but it's not clear if they're resting their players. New England and San Francisco have tougher SOS, so losing should keep the Vikings ahead of those two. Realistically speaking, at least one of NY Giants & Dallas stays ahead of Minnesota. Carolina almost certainly does. 9-12 seems the best case scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twslhs20 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) On 12/27/2020 at 9:18 PM, Ozzy said: Possible the numbers have changed but here are the top teams in the NFL in terms of least amount of sacks given up this year, and all are playoff teams most likely. Steelers 13 Packers 19 Bucs 21 Colts 21 Titans 21 Browns 22 Rams 23 Chiefs 23 All of the offensive lines here have Pro bowlers on it either past, present or future. All are very good OL groups. The Vikings have what not had an offensive lineman in the Pro bowl since what 2012? Steelers have two Pro bowl offensive linemen, Colts have two, Packers have two, Saints have two. The Saints are not on the list but have 27 sacks given up, but Hill was the QB part of the time so not sure that counts since he runs so much and is not experienced as a QB. Either way OL has to be address, not sure QB is the issue. You give Kirk Cousins two offensive lineman in the Pro bowl and he would look like a different player. Ask Baker Mayfield how that has helped this year with a greatly improved offensive line. Wish I had the number for total QB hits by team given up in the NFL. I know I looked and over four games Cousins was hit over 45 times in those four games around 10-14 each game it seemed. They did only give up 36 sacks on the year but that is in the bottom 1/3 of the league. I wanted to dig into this more, but I'm still in the process of moving. I'd look at a couple of variables. Comparing theses QBs with pressure percentages, DVOA, and how much time they hold onto the ball. Not to mention how many of those pro bowlers were 1st round talents? I think those factors would give you better holistic view of the lines and how they have acquired that talent. Edited December 30, 2020 by twslhs20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, twslhs20 said: I wanted to dig into this more, but I'm still in the process of moving. I'd look at a couple of variables. Comparing theses QBs with pressure percentages, DVOA, and how much time they hold onto the ball. Not to mention how many of those pro bowlers were 1st round talents? I think those factors would give you better holistic view of the lines and how they have acquired that talent. Most of the Saints OL are 1st round picks, the two good ones on the Colts are 1st round picks as well along with the third best OL on the team, same with the good ones on the Steelers but sure there are projects in there with Villanueva. Packers have done a great job developing OL and Jenkins is a star and Bakhtiari is the best in the game apparently this year, I believe they are the only OL group without any 1st round picks on the line. I guess them and the Rams who also do not have any high picks but some were arguably highly rated guys that underachieved in college and dropped in the draft, both Wisconsin guys for sure. Bucs have Wirfs who has been arguably the best rookie OL in the NFL, and they have a variety of other very capable players on the OL with Smith and Marpet along with Jensen. Titans have Saffold who had 1st round potential but was a 2nd round pick, and he was injured all year but Lewan is a star OT and a 1st round pick, Ben Jones is a quality center they got and Isaiah Wilson is a 1st rounder also but has been hurt most the year I believe. Browns have two 1st round picks at tackle in Conklin and Wills and Bitonio was a high 2nd round pick. Chiefs have Fisher who was a 1st round pick and Osemele was a high 2nd rounder same with Schwartz, but Andy develops OL so well he has multiple guys that he has made good, just look at Remmers all of a sudden being ok enough to start again in the NFL. Sure good QB play sometimes makes you get sacked less, and getting rid of the football does as well. But you put Tom Brady behind the Vikings OL and he would be losing his mind on the sidelines with anger with the pressure he would be getting right in his face game in and game out. Seems like ever since Berger and Easton one retired and the other left in free agency, every since those guys were gone the interior of the OL has been pretty weak. I like Bradbury at times in the zone blocking scheme but still he gets pushed around but at least he is better than Elflein who is not a fit for this system. Isidora did not work out at guard, Beavers obviously did not, Yankey surprisingly did not etc. O'Neill has been a good find but was a steal really in the 2nd round because he had 1st round potential, and Cleveland was a steal as well and both fit the athletic OT profile. 2020 Ezra Cleveland 2nd (58) 2019 Garrett Bradbury 1st (18) 2019 Dru Samia 4th (110) 2018 Brian O'Neill 2nd (62) 2017 Pat Elflein 3rd (70) 2017 Danny Isidora 5th (180) 2016 Willie Beavers 4 (121) 2015 TJ Clemmings 4 (110) 2014 David Yankey 5 (145) 2012 Matt Kalil 1 (4) Dalton Risner and Erick McCoy could have been the picks in 2019. I wanted Risner over Bradbury in that draft, did not care about the center thing though but if they got McCoy in the 2nd it would have been fine. Risner to me is the better player than Bradbury but has had some injury issues at times. Real bad thing is Elgton Jenkins for the Packers a current Pro bowler, I did not think he was going to be that good in the league but is awesome at OG, was never a big fan of his at center but clearly he is a stud. So again I am not sold on the interior, but Bradbury is good enough maybe but again no high profile QB like Brady or Big Ben would want to put up with getting smacked in the mouth from the dead center of the pocket game in and game out. Maybe it is the guards fault and sure at times but other times Bradbury gets walked backward. Hopefully we can help that with either an OT who can play OG if need or another center in general or Wyatt Davis. Crazy but they have been chasing that guard position for years now, pathetic thing was when they thought they could fill it with Josh Kline who is currently not in the NFL, real shocker. Losing Tony Sparano when he passed set the OL group back for awhile also, he was going to be a great OL coach potentially for awhile here. Kubiak and his coaching tree are doing ok though but still need to show that they can develop and pick the right guys to actually protect the QB. They are the 6th best rushing team in the NFL and the 2nd leading rushing, so at least they got that going for them. I still say they need another back, Mattison even when healthy which has not been much this year has not been great. They need to be able to spell Cook more and get some real production out of another guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticNorseman Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 On 12/28/2020 at 8:08 PM, PrplChilPill said: Barr might get you a late second. No way he gets you a first. Let's say Barr gets traded for a 2nd . . . Would I like that? Not a ton, but he hasn't always taken over games, like he should for the money he's paid and the physical skillset he's blessed with. The cap savings would be huge though, so Bryz and Spielman will have incredibly hard choices like this to make. If the team loses a guy like him due to dollars, they better find an heir apparent. Eric Wilson seems logical, but he's made $$$ this year, hasn't he? The Vikes are losing one or the other, maybe both. I still want the team to focus on DT and OG with picks 1 and 2, need to, IMO. With three 4th rounders (correct?) and two 3rds, Spielman might just be able to work up into a better position. Or, they could bundle Kyle Rudolph and a pick to move up . . . seems like there's a lot of options out there. Being smart is one thing, getting strong contributors is another. I think this team can add strength to the O-Line, a better than average QB, and maybe one other offensive piece, like TE or WR. They might draft a kicker again, which might be a waste of a pick? The rest needs to go D . . . DT, Safety, DE and if they lose Barr or Wilson, LB . . . plus a better back-up at MLB. How many CBs do we need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplexing Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, ArcticNorseman said: Let's say Barr gets traded for a 2nd . . . Would I like that? Not a ton, but he hasn't always taken over games, like he should for the money he's paid and the physical skillset he's blessed with. The cap savings would be huge though, so Bryz and Spielman will have incredibly hard choices like this to make. If the team loses a guy like him due to dollars, they better find an heir apparent. Eric Wilson seems logical, but he's made $$$ this year, hasn't he? The Vikes are losing one or the other, maybe both. I still want the team to focus on DT and OG with picks 1 and 2, need to, IMO. With three 4th rounders (correct?) and two 3rds, Spielman might just be able to work up into a better position. Or, they could bundle Kyle Rudolph and a pick to move up . . . seems like there's a lot of options out there. Being smart is one thing, getting strong contributors is another. I think this team can add strength to the O-Line, a better than average QB, and maybe one other offensive piece, like TE or WR. They might draft a kicker again, which might be a waste of a pick? The rest needs to go D . . . DT, Safety, DE and if they lose Barr or Wilson, LB . . . plus a better back-up at MLB. How many CBs do we need? NOOOOOO! Ten-Pick Rick needs those picks to trade down to accumulate 20 or 21 picks in 2021!!! That will provide for a complete starting team of rookies, including P, K, LS, except for QB, RB, and 2 WRs, and perhaps TE. The quantity of CBs needed by Zimmer's D is inversely proportional to DL and LBs able to adequately create pass rush pressure, errant forced throws, and sacks while maintaining proper control of running lanes. Edited December 30, 2020 by Purplexing add 'errant' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplexing Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 9 hours ago, Ozzy said: They are the 6th best rushing team in the NFL and the 2nd leading rushing, so at least they got that going for them. The Vikings hold two spots on the list of 32 NFL teams' rushing stats!? That's perplexing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 On 12/28/2020 at 11:08 PM, PrplChilPill said: Barr might get you a late second. No way he gets you a first. Barr isn't even getting a Day 2 pick. He's paid insanely way too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Barr isn't even getting a Day 2 pick. He's paid insanely way too much. I was being generous to the poster I responded to.....I agree, he'd get a 4th or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: I was being generous to the poster I responded to.....I agree, he'd get a 4th or so. Even that seems generous. He's paid a TON of money, and he's not an impact player. And with the current economic climate, you're going to be hard pressed to justify spending that much on a non-premium position. I don't think there's much of a market for him tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpMc Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Rumored to be a draft riser and an name to watch for an interior defensive player for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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