2021 Draft Talk

[NoDakViking]

4 hours ago, Purplepride323 said:

Yup I wouldn’t be mad at all if we trade down, even twice, to get a pick between 25-30. Even if that means passing on Trey Lance and Zach Wilson. I would rather get a great lineman late in the first, while acquiring more picks in the second and third round, than get a QB of the future and missing out on other position players of the future. We can still find our QB of the future in later rounds. Kellen Mond, Desmond Ridder and Brady White are some guys who have starting potential that’ll be there in the later rounds. Also if Kyle Trask falls to the late 3rd/4th round, I think that’ll be a great pick for us. He’s better than Sean Mannion for sure. 

You know, I've been thinking that maybe they've been holding off on drafting one because they are worried it would fracture Cousins' confidence the way Wentz's did.  I could definitely see it.

I'm all for Ridder though and Mond is interesting. 

[RpMc]

Ridder is going back to Cincy.

[SteelKing728]

14 hours ago, RpMc said:

Ridder is going back to Cincy.

Good we'll get him next year then! Haha

[CWood21]

20 hours ago, RpMc said:

As a Vikings fan, pending the board at 14 of course, that's the type of move I could get behind.  I feel that the offensive and defensive lineman likely available from 25 to 45 aren't that different from those available at 14.  Outside of the big guns of course.

The likelihood of a Darrisaw, Slater, Davis, Vera-Tucker, Mayfield type player being there at 25 are high, IMO

On the other hand, is dropping that far worth it for the Vikings?

[CWood21]

19 hours ago, Purplepride323 said:

Yup I wouldn’t be mad at all if we trade down, even twice, to get a pick between 25-30. Even if that means passing on Trey Lance and Zach Wilson. I would rather get a great lineman late in the first, while acquiring more picks in the second and third round, than get a QB of the future and missing out on other position players of the future. We can still find our QB of the future in later rounds. Kellen Mond, Desmond Ridder and Brady White are some guys who have starting potential that’ll be there in the later rounds. Also if Kyle Trask falls to the late 3rd/4th round, I think that’ll be a great pick for us. He’s better than Sean Mannion for sure. 

I wouldn't expect Zach Wilson to be available at 14.  It's a stretch if he makes it out of the top 8, let alone fall that far.  Trey Lance has a better chance of being available.  I'm looking at where these tiers break, and it wouldn't surprise me if 12-18 ends up being a run on OL.  I think by the time the Vikings are on the clock, you'll see at least 3 QBs (Lawrence, Fields, and Wilson), one OT (Sewell), and probably 2 CBs (Surtain and Farley). I'd imagine we will see at least 2 WRs and another OL and probably at least one EDGE.

[Ozzy]

With how dominating Christian Barmore was in that title game he should be an absolute consideration for the Vikings.  Would love his teammate Alex Leatherwood as well who has OT/OG versatility or Slater, those are the top two options who could be around at that point.  Both Leatherwood and Barmore played great and both could be great additions though, I would be happy with either one.  

 

This QB talk I say forget that nonsense.  It is a year too early to start thinking that, and they do not have a good enough football team to just go backup project QB already in the 1st round without a 2nd round pick.  I would rather draft one or sign a cheap FA like CJ Beathard possibly to replace Mannion.  Kirk never gets hurt anyway and the guy was damn impressive this year so backup QB is not a huge concern.

 

I agree Wilson will absolutely be long gone, and honestly so will Trey Lance.  Wilson could go to Carolina worst case but could go higher and 49ers worst case drops to the 49ers but could go higher as well so it is not even an option and should not be considered an option.  If it happens sure maybe but really doubt that ever occurs.  Also with Atlanta might want a QB, Detroit might or Denver might as well, not to mention the Jags obviously and Jets.  That is seven teams out of the 13 ahead of the Vikings who could go QB, and four to me absolutely will go QB.

 

PS Caleb Farley is not worth a top 15 draft selection in my view.  Maybe if he works out great but he was a fringe 1st rounder but not really even that before the season this year.  No clue why he did not just play this year and prove himself a little more.  Sure Wade did not have a great year but his slot ability is very interesting and he is better in the slot anyway and will probably end up there in the NFL.

 

 

[RpMc]

Not saying he can't do it, but I don't think Leatherwood is a natural fit in our scheme.  He's better suited to a gap scheme.

[ArcticNorseman]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

With how dominating Christian Barmore was in that title game he should be an absolute consideration for the Vikings.  Would love his teammate Alex Leatherwood as well who has OT/OG versatility or Slater, those are the top two options who could be around at that point.  Both Leatherwood and Barmore played great and both could be great additions though, I would be happy with either one.  

 

This QB talk I say forget that nonsense.  It is a year too early to start thinking that, and they do not have a good enough football team to just go backup project QB already in the 1st round without a 2nd round pick.  I would rather draft one or sign a cheap FA like CJ Beathard possibly to replace Mannion.  Kirk never gets hurt anyway and the guy was damn impressive this year so backup QB is not a huge concern.

 

I agree Wilson will absolutely be long gone, and honestly so will Trey Lance.  Wilson could go to Carolina worst case but could go higher and 49ers worst case drops to the 49ers but could go higher as well so it is not even an option and should not be considered an option.  If it happens sure maybe but really doubt that ever occurs.  Also with Atlanta might want a QB, Detroit might or Denver might as well, not to mention the Jags obviously and Jets.  That is seven teams out of the 13 ahead of the Vikings who could go QB, and four to me absolutely will go QB.

 

PS Caleb Farley is not worth a top 15 draft selection in my view.  Maybe if he works out great but he was a fringe 1st rounder but not really even that before the season this year.  No clue why he did not just play this year and prove himself a little more.  Sure Wade did not have a great year but his slot ability is very interesting and he is better in the slot anyway and will probably end up there in the NFL.

 

 

I too thought Barmore played exceptionally well against OH St, but was that a product of Davis getting hurt?  I think his game against Notre Dame was a bit more challenging; at times, Aaron Banks got the better of the battle.  Can't wait to see how he does in other testing.   Leatherwood seemed like he was all over the place . . . and his bookend partner -- damn, that guy's big!  Leatherwood though, he made a lot of blocks . . . looks more like a tackle than a guard, but with those guns, he should be able to hold up on the inside too.

The reason for the QB talk, is founded, not in regard to Cousins' durability, but what happens if he truly does get hurt.  We don't have that guy, we as fans think, can get in there and pull out wins.  Historically, it's not likely a rookie late-round QB takes over a starting role, even if due to injury.  Usually early-rounders are put into action too soon.  Is it a crapshoot for balance?  lol.  Would I be surprised to see Spielman make a move up if Trask were to slide to the 40s or early 50s?  Nope.  

[Ozzy]

44 minutes ago, ArcticNorseman said:

I too thought Barmore played exceptionally well against OH St, but was that a product of Davis getting hurt?  I think his game against Notre Dame was a bit more challenging; at times, Aaron Banks got the better of the battle.  Can't wait to see how he does in other testing.   Leatherwood seemed like he was all over the place . . . and his bookend partner -- damn, that guy's big!  Leatherwood though, he made a lot of blocks . . . looks more like a tackle than a guard, but with those guns, he should be able to hold up on the inside too.

The reason for the QB talk, is founded, not in regard to Cousins' durability, but what happens if he truly does get hurt.  We don't have that guy, we as fans think, can get in there and pull out wins.  Historically, it's not likely a rookie late-round QB takes over a starting role, even if due to injury.  Usually early-rounders are put into action too soon.  Is it a crapshoot for balance?  lol.  Would I be surprised to see Spielman make a move up if Trask were to slide to the 40s or early 50s?  Nope.  

Yeah Barmore is still raw but he is a RS SOPH and clearly ended his college career with a bang if he decides to come out early.  Davis being out helped sure, especially for those splash plays and that one where he was basically not blocked, but he did some good things with him in there as well.  Evan Neal on Bama will be a 1st round pick, high 1st rounder next year no question about it.  But Neal has been a guard and now is a OT and Leatherwood was a guard earlier in his career and is now a OT.  Great versatility and I would love him on the Vikings, get a big dude who is strong not just all these athletic guys who lack strength and power.  The versatility would be great also, like I said no other top rated OL prospect has played OG and OT like Leatherwood has in college.  Many could probably make the transition to guard in the NFL but few actually have experience at both.

 

Trask will not slide to the 40s or 50s, he will be gone in the 1st round as well unless Big Ben and Rivers decide to come back, Rivers might Big Ben really should not.  But there could be a lot of teams wanting a QB in the 1st round but sure that could change.  We have had a **** backup QB ever since Keenum left.  Mannion is trash and has zero future granted, but I would rather draft a QB later and get a Shane Buechele, or better yet Brady White or Ian Book.  Nothing great but also not wasting a lot of they do not turn out.  Are those guys better than Jake Browning or Nathan Stanley, probably but maybe they like Stanley but since he was not even on the roster this season I doubt it.  Browning they like mentally sure, but physically he is not a NFL QB at all.  Davis Mills is another guy who could be a great later round draft pick this year and has some good tools, same with Zach Smith who has a big time arm.  

 

4 hours ago, RpMc said:

Not saying he can't do it, but I don't think Leatherwood is a natural fit in our scheme.  He's better suited to a gap scheme.

I am kind of sick of the scheme stuff.  Scheme is one thing, but freaking getting some dudes in there who are strong is another.  Bradbury, Cleveland and O'Neill all had great 40 times for an offensive lineman regardless of position, who really cares when you get pushed around and knocked backward constantly in pass pro.  To say Leatherwood is not more athletic than Dozier, yeah right.  Will be interesting how he times out at the combine sure.  Mayfield could do well athletically and I would not mind trying him at OG first before moving him to OT.  Carman doubt he times out well but is another who could be a beast as a guard.  If one goes pure athlete then Slater is the guy but he has never played guard and not sure that would be his best spot, and not like Reiff can be some great guard, but I would not mind getting Slater either.

Still the athletic yet physically weak offensive lineman drafting for the Vikings is getting kind of old.  Athletic ability is great in the run game at times but ask Kirk Cousins how he liked getting absolutely killed in the pocket for what 5 weeks in a row, 17 sacks and 47 QB hits over that span.

[Purplepride323]

15 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I wouldn't expect Zach Wilson to be available at 14.  It's a stretch if he makes it out of the top 8, let alone fall that far.  Trey Lance has a better chance of being available.  I'm looking at where these tiers break, and it wouldn't surprise me if 12-18 ends up being a run on OL.  I think by the time the Vikings are on the clock, you'll see at least 3 QBs (Lawrence, Fields, and Wilson), one OT (Sewell), and probably 2 CBs (Surtain and Farley). I'd imagine we will see at least 2 WRs and another OL and probably at least one EDGE.

I think at that point we have to decide whether we take Trey Lance or trade down to a later first-round pick and acquire a second rounder. I think trading down is our best bet. No matter how good Trey Lance is, I would rather shore up our other positions of need: DE, OG, CB, DT. If we can trade down to the end of the first and still get Jaycee Horn, Kwity Paye or Wyatt Davis, I wouldn’t be mad at that. 

[RpMc]

9 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Yeah Barmore is still raw but he is a RS SOPH and clearly ended his college career with a bang if he decides to come out early.  Davis being out helped sure, especially for those splash plays and that one where he was basically not blocked, but he did some good things with him in there as well.  Evan Neal on Bama will be a 1st round pick, high 1st rounder next year no question about it.  But Neal has been a guard and now is a OT and Leatherwood was a guard earlier in his career and is now a OT.  Great versatility and I would love him on the Vikings, get a big dude who is strong not just all these athletic guys who lack strength and power.  The versatility would be great also, like I said no other top rated OL prospect has played OG and OT like Leatherwood has in college.  Many could probably make the transition to guard in the NFL but few actually have experience at both.

 

Trask will not slide to the 40s or 50s, he will be gone in the 1st round as well unless Big Ben and Rivers decide to come back, Rivers might Big Ben really should not.  But there could be a lot of teams wanting a QB in the 1st round but sure that could change.  We have had a **** backup QB ever since Keenum left.  Mannion is trash and has zero future granted, but I would rather draft a QB later and get a Shane Buechele, or better yet Brady White or Ian Book.  Nothing great but also not wasting a lot of they do not turn out.  Are those guys better than Jake Browning or Nathan Stanley, probably but maybe they like Stanley but since he was not even on the roster this season I doubt it.  Browning they like mentally sure, but physically he is not a NFL QB at all.  Davis Mills is another guy who could be a great later round draft pick this year and has some good tools, same with Zach Smith who has a big time arm.  

 

I am kind of sick of the scheme stuff.  Scheme is one thing, but freaking getting some dudes in there who are strong is another.  Bradbury, Cleveland and O'Neill all had great 40 times for an offensive lineman regardless of position, who really cares when you get pushed around and knocked backward constantly in pass pro.  To say Leatherwood is not more athletic than Dozier, yeah right.  Will be interesting how he times out at the combine sure.  Mayfield could do well athletically and I would not mind trying him at OG first before moving him to OT.  Carman doubt he times out well but is another who could be a beast as a guard.  If one goes pure athlete then Slater is the guy but he has never played guard and not sure that would be his best spot, and not like Reiff can be some great guard, but I would not mind getting Slater either.

Still the athletic yet physically weak offensive lineman drafting for the Vikings is getting kind of old.  Athletic ability is great in the run game at times but ask Kirk Cousins how he liked getting absolutely killed in the pocket for what 5 weeks in a row, 17 sacks and 47 QB hits over that span.

Where in my post did I say Leatherwood would be worse than Dozier? We could put a traffic cone in at LG and it would have been better than Dozier. That shouldn’t be the bar.

I only questioned if he was an ideal fit, because he’s only an adequate mover. An ideal fit isn’t someone who can move, that’s weak. It’s someone who can move and also hold their ground. If I’m drafting someone at 14, I want both.

Lets also not paint Leatherwood as some physical freak, “dude,” of a player. His play strength is okay to good, not great.  

Edited January 14, 2021 by RpMc

[swede700]

To consider drafting Trey Lance at 14, if available, I think we also have to consider the 2022 QB class into the evaluation.  Obviously, it's way early to know for sure, but I've already seen some discussion that the QB class is going to be far weaker.  Therefore, it might be prudent to get a high-talent QB who needs some work right now.  If he's available at #14, I'd certainly think long and hard about it. 

While they do need other positions, I'm personally a little exhausted of hearing people complain around here about not having a franchise QB...so, now potentially they might be in position to get one and then you'd complain about them taking one because they need so much elsewhere.  

There likely isn't going to be a slam dunk player available at #14 that they have to take...even at the positions they have a need for, so if the 2022 or 2023 starting QB for the Vikings is there, you take him and worry about the other positions later.

Now, granted, I'm not sure Lance will even be there and the likelihood is that it's going to be OL again, but if the option presents itself, I'm strongly considering it.

[twslhs20]

15 hours ago, RpMc said:

Not saying he can't do it, but I don't think Leatherwood is a natural fit in our scheme.  He's better suited to a gap scheme.

He was holding the entire game. I want no part of that.

[twslhs20]

30 minutes ago, swede700 said:

To consider drafting Trey Lance at 14, if available, I think we also have to consider the 2022 QB class into the evaluation.  Obviously, it's way early to know for sure, but I've already seen some discussion that the QB class is going to be far weaker.  Therefore, it might be prudent to get a high-talent QB who needs some work right now.  If he's available at #14, I'd certainly think long and hard about it. 

While they do need other positions, I'm personally a little exhausted of hearing people complain around here about not having a franchise QB...so, now potentially they might be in position to get one and then you'd complain about them taking one because they need so much elsewhere.  

There likely isn't going to be a slam dunk player available at #14 that they have to take...even at the positions they have a need for, so if the 2022 or 2023 starting QB for the Vikings is there, you take him and worry about the other positions later.

Now, granted, I'm not sure Lance will even be there and the likelihood is that it's going to be OL again, but if the option presents itself, I'm strongly considering it.

You can't take a QB for the sake of wanting/needing one. Christian Ponder should solidify that stance.

As much as I dislike Cousins, you're only setting the franchise back further with that strategy.

14 is no mans land for anything other than OL/DL. I agree with @CWood21 on that.

[swede700]

2 hours ago, twslhs20 said:

You can't take a QB for the sake of wanting/needing one. Christian Ponder should solidify that stance.

As much as I dislike Cousins, you're only setting the franchise back further with that strategy.

14 is no mans land for anything other than OL/DL. I agree with @CWood21 on that.

I never said they "had" to, I just said I would consider it.  14 is generally a no-man's land for anything, as we've seen in the last few drafts.  There seems to be 5-7 top prospects and then there's about 30+ players that could anywhere from 10-32. 

I still consider the Ponder situation as an outlier, since I'm not even sure he was ranked properly by the staff at the time (and I still do think that Leslie had a lot of influence on that pick) as he was widely considered a borderline 1st rd player and they tremendously reached for him.  I don't believe taking Lance at 14 would be anywhere near the same type of situation and I don't necessarily believe that Lance is anywhere less of a player on the board than the OL/DL, it's just something to be seriously considered.  

Edited January 14, 2021 by swede700