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20 hours ago, Ozzy said:

This QB talk I say forget that nonsense.  It is a year too early to start thinking that, and they do not have a good enough football team to just go backup project QB already in the 1st round without a 2nd round pick.  I would rather draft one or sign a cheap FA like CJ Beathard possibly to replace Mannion.  Kirk never gets hurt anyway and the guy was damn impressive this year so backup QB is not a huge concern.

It's better to be a year early and get your QB then to be a year late and not get your QB.  IF they view Trey Lance (or Mac Jones or Kyle Trask) as their franchise QB, and they pass on him then Spielman deserves to be fired.

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9 hours ago, Purplepride323 said:

I think at that point we have to decide whether we take Trey Lance or trade down to a later first-round pick and acquire a second rounder. I think trading down is our best bet. No matter how good Trey Lance is, I would rather shore up our other positions of need: DE, OG, CB, DT. If we can trade down to the end of the first and still get Jaycee Horn, Kwity Paye or Wyatt Davis, I wouldn’t be mad at that. 

If you're lukewarm on Lance's future, I'd probably agree.  But if you think he's a franchise QB and you pass on him, then you deserve to wallow in mediocrity for the next decade.  You simply do not pass on a franchise QB when the opportunity presents itself.

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I'm leaning trade back, if possible.....or DE or OG. Not sure any QB left is a franchise QB (but if they think one is, they should take him).....but right now, DE is the biggest need (well, DT is, but not sure about the pickings).

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7 hours ago, RpMc said:

Where in my post did I say Leatherwood would be worse than Dozier? We could put a traffic cone in at LG and it would have been better than Dozier. That shouldn’t be the bar.

I only questioned if he was an ideal fit, because he’s only an adequate mover. An ideal fit isn’t someone who can move, that’s weak. It’s someone who can move and also hold their ground. If I’m drafting someone at 14, I want both.

Lets also not paint Leatherwood as some physical freak, “dude,” of a player. His play strength is okay to good, not great.  

If Leatherwood is not the guy then who is?  Wyatt Davis?  I like the versatility of Leatherwood obviously more than Davis, a offensive lineman that can play OT and OG, to me that puts Leatherwood ahead of Davis.  Slater again I would not mind but who says he could even play guard?  

Fact is three if not four of the Vikings OL cannot hold their ground and they have not "shock" in their hands at all.  Leatherwood is not a physical freak, but I would not say he is so unathletic he cannot play in a zone blocking scheme.  But yeah I would love a dude with power and athletic ability, Mayfield could be that absolutely but will see how it all times out at the combine.  Carman could surprise some people but did struggle late in the year.  

 

 

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

It's better to be a year early and get your QB then to be a year late and not get your QB.  IF they view Trey Lance (or Mac Jones or Kyle Trask) as their franchise QB, and they pass on him then Spielman deserves to be fired.

Trey Lance is not an option because he would be gone anyway.  And I like Mac Jones and Trask but that would be a poor pick because DL and OL are more important needs at this time.  It is not like the 2022 draft is awful in terms of QB, you have Spencer Rattler, Sam Howell, Kedon Slovis, Matt Corral and to a lesser extent JT Daniels, Bo Nix, Phil Jurkovec, Michael Penix, Hank Bachmeier, J'Bore Gibbs, Dillon Gabriel and most likely Brock Purdy and Desmond Ridder assuming both return to school etc.  Could argue in terms of number of prospects it could be a deeper QB class in 2022 than 2021 both in terms of high end talent and overall depth.  You get past the first 6-7 in this years draft and the quality goes down pretty quick.  And six could easily be gone in the 1st round.    

Now if Trey Lance or Zach Wilson is just sitting there, sure those are options at 14 but even though I think both Trask and Jones are 1st round picks I would not take them over the OL and DL help the Vikings need right now when they do not have the cash to really fill the void in free agency and do not have a 2nd round pick either.  

Trey Lance is crazy raw and unproven to hard to just call him this all time franchise QB, same with Mac and Trask.  Only franchise QBs in this draft are Lawrence and Fields, and arguably only ones in 2022 are Rattler, Howell and Slovis, maybe Corral but probably not yet.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

If you're lukewarm on Lance's future, I'd probably agree.  But if you think he's a franchise QB and you pass on him, then you deserve to wallow in mediocrity for the next decade.  You simply do not pass on a franchise QB when the opportunity presents itself.

Easy to say when your Green Bay Packers team has two pro bowl offensive lineman, the best LT in the game, and a center who was 1st team all Pro and somehow did not even make it to the pro bowl.  That is three elite level OL and the Vikings do not even have one.

Oh and Love did just fall right to them, and not only that but it seemed to have motivated their starter to play arguably the best football of his career and become a better teammate then he has ever been before.  So yeah it worked out great for them.

 

Kirk Cousins was hit more in one game than Aaron Rodgers was in specific spans of 3-4 weeks during the season.  Yeah it is kind of an issue and needs to be addressed.  Sure would be great waiting in the draft to do it but most likely that is not an option, especially with how poorly they develop offensive lineman later in the draft of late.  So draft a QB instead of protect the QB?  Seems kind of backwards to me.  

 

I will say it again, 5 weeks in a row, 17 sacks and 47 QB hits over that span.  That is like 75% Aaron Rodgers sack total all season, not even considering QB hits where Rodgers would not even get close to that number all year is my guess and it was only 5 games.

 

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Love didn't fall to them...they traded up to get him.  I personally thought they could have waited and got him at their original pick, but they wanted to ensure it.

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30 minutes ago, swede700 said:

Love didn't fall to them...they traded up to get him.  I personally thought they could have waited and got him at their original pick, but they wanted to ensure it.

He was the 26th pick in the draft, I would say that is falling for him.  The Raiders could have selected him multiple times before that and so could have the Jaguars or 49ers but that would be a bit much at that time but now looks like they could easily take a QB this year.

 

Still the Packers did it because their backup QB is nothing special, and they had a majority of other team needs filled or taken care of with free agency.  Vikings do not have that option in free agency and clearly key points on the OL are not filled and same with the DL.  Sure Packers could have taken a WR but clearly they have a ton of faith in Lazard and rightfully so, MVS has played well this year and Tonyan is destroying people and oh they got another Indiana State TE/HB Dafney who looks pretty damn good as well the little he has played.  

Vikings do not have that luxury of a great offensive line and not sure any of them will ever be Pro bowl level players and that elite, so one has to get a dude in here that is or at least has that potential.  Zach Wilson and Trey Lance falling to them is just not that likely to happen at all.

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Top 20 offensive line prospects who could fit in the Vikings system potentially.

Penei Sewell Oregon JR OT  
Rashawn Slater Northwestern OT/OG
Alex Leatherwood Alabama OT/OG
Jackson Carman Clemson JR OT/OG
Jalen Mayfield Michigan RS SOPH OT/OG
Wyatt Davis Ohio State RS JR OG
Alijah Vera-Tucker USC RS JR OG/OT
Christian Darrisaw Virginia Tech JR OG/OT
Josh Myers Ohio State RS JR C/OG
Dillon Radunz NDSU RS OT/OG
Creed Humphrey Oklahoma RS JR C
Liam Eichenberg Notre Dame RS OT
Samuel Cosmi Texas RS JR OT
Landon Dickerson Alabama RS C/OG
James Hudson Cincinnati RS JR OT
Alaric Jackson Iowa RS OT/OG
Walker Little Stanford OT
Dan Moore Jr Texas A&M OT/OG
Deonte Brown Alabama RS SR OT
Royce Newman Ole Miss RS SR OG

 

Dillon Radunz I need to watch more, same with Darrisaw but Radunz is very interesting and will see what he looks like in the Senior Bowl.  Kid could be an awesome guard and has some great toughness.  James Hudson I like athletically a lot but tackle is clearly not as big of a need.  A lot of these guys I project as a possibly OG in the NFL but again only Leatherwood has done both along with Vera-Tucker as far as I know.  Samuel Cosmi could be a great fit at OT but again not as big of a need.  Deonte Brown is a beast but sure might not be a best scheme fit but I think could play and do well if with the group, and Newman I really like his versatility and his toughness.

 

 

Trey Smith or Cole Van Lanen, Van Lanen maybe could become a OG like David Edwards because of his struggles in pass pro but not sure he fits either way.  Trey Smith is a mauler but probably is not a fit either.  

 

Maybe it would be best to just trade out of the 1st round if one could somehow get two 2nd round picks for it but not sure that is really possible.  Could then fill the OL and DL needs in that one round.  And I would be more than fine with Myers 2nd round as a OG prospect or Cosmi if he is there or Dickerson or Radunz etc.  There are a lot of good quality options in the draft but they will all be gone once round 3 is over most likely.  Decent 2nd round talent potentially with a lot of options.  

 

 

 

Brett Heggie I would like as a later round pick because he can play OG or C and is a tough dude, Trey Hill would be very interesting as a powerful guard as well even though he has been a good center on Georgia over the past few years.  

Connor Olson from the Gophers could be a good fit also with his OG and C versatility but not sure if he will return to school for another season or not.  

 

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6 hours ago, CWood21 said:

If you're lukewarm on Lance's future, I'd probably agree.  But if you think he's a franchise QB and you pass on him, then you deserve to wallow in mediocrity for the next decade.  You simply do not pass on a franchise QB when the opportunity presents itself.

The thing is, you can win a Super Bowl with a “mediocre” QB. The Eagles won, not so long ago, with Nick Foles. No knock on Nick Foles, he played some great games, but he’s never been considered a great QB let alone a franchise QB. The point I’m trying to make is, I have faith in Kirk Cousins being a good enough QB to win a Super Bowl. As long as we have a great team and great offensive line in front of him. If we have a top-10 defense again, with our current offensive weapons, and an improved offensive line. I think Kirk Cousins can take us to the playoffs at the very least.

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3 minutes ago, Purplepride323 said:

The thing is, you can win a Super Bowl with a “mediocre” QB. The Eagles won, not so long ago, with Nick Foles. No knock on Nick Foles, he played some great games, but he’s never been considered a great QB let alone a franchise QB. The point I’m trying to make is, I have faith in Kirk Cousins being a good enough QB to win a Super Bowl. As long as we have a great team and great offensive line in front of him. If we have a top-10 defense again, with our current offensive weapons, and an improved offensive line. I think Kirk Cousins can take us to the playoffs at the very least.

It is a lot easier to win with a lesser QB when the team isn't paying beaucoup bucks for said QB. It is tough to build a solid enough team around a lesser QB being paid high dollars.

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6 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

It is a lot easier to win with a lesser QB when the team isn't paying beaucoup bucks for said QB. It is tough to build a solid enough team around a lesser QB being paid high dollars.

Yeah no question. Hopefully Kirk Cousins realizes that and restructures his contract again in the offseason. If we can knock off $5- $10 million from his cap hit, it would be huge. 

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Just now, Purplepride323 said:

The thing is, you can win a Super Bowl with a “mediocre” QB. The Eagles won, not so long ago, with Nick Foles. No knock on Nick Foles, he played some great games, but he’s never been considered a great QB let alone a franchise QB. The point I’m trying to make is, I have faith in Kirk Cousins being a good enough QB to win a Super Bowl. As long as we have a great team and great offensive line in front of him. If we have a top-10 defense again, with our current offensive weapons, and an improved offensive line. I think Kirk Cousins can take us to the playoffs at the very least.

Cousins was 8th in the NFL in total RTG, 6th in the NFL in passing TDs, 9th in completion percentage, 8th in passing yards, 2nd in average per completion, 9th in yards per game yet being sacked the 6th most times in the NFL, which does not include total hits which I am sure is way up there.  And multiple times this year he lead all NFL QBs in 4th quarter passer rating for the week, which was behind a more than suspect pass protecting offensive line.

So I agree he showed a ton this season despite being with an awful defense.  Before he did not win games by himself when the D played bad.  This season they won games when the D played like crap and providing opportunities for Jefferson to become a Pro bowl receiver as a rookie, that was wildly impressive.  Sure Jefferson had a lot to do with it but bad QB play could have easily made Jefferson just ok as a rookie instead of great.  

 

Hopefully it has nothing to do with the fact no one was there, sadly there is the chance he played that well because no one was in the stands and the pressure in the moment was not nearly as intimidating.  

 

He was sacked 11 more times in 2020 than in 2019.  He threw a lot of INTs in 2020 but so did Carson Wentz and Russell Wilson who got sacked even more than Kirk so clearly that has something to do with it, that constant pressure these QBs were under.  

 

 

Just now, Purplepride323 said:

Yeah no question. Hopefully Kirk Cousins realizes that and restructures his contract again in the offseason. If we can knock off $5- $10 million from his cap hit, it would be huge. 

Of course that would be nice, but for once he absolutely played up to that contract in many ways this year.  I disliked the original signing of the dude, but this year is hard not to be impressed with his play. Especially with how badly is started out as, he totally turned it around.

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2 hours ago, Purplepride323 said:

Yeah no question. Hopefully Kirk Cousins realizes that and restructures his contract again in the offseason. If we can knock off $5- $10 million from his cap hit, it would be huge. 

Restructuring would likely mean another extension. I'm not sure I'm on board with that. Especially with the magnitude of this season. If this season goes south and they clean house, I don't want the next regime having their hands tied with an aging QB with a huge cap hit. 

 

That is of course unless they trade him to the Broncos or 49ers and trade up to get Zach Wilson B|

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Cousins has no reason to take a paycut kind of restructure after this season, and pushing more money into the future on him via a simple restructure doesn’t make a ton of sense. A player like Barr or Smith makes more sense to do a simple restructure on for cap space. 

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