Saahdiq Charles has 3rd best footwork in the draft

[naptownskinsfan]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

The Jets signed George Fant too. So, it will be a competition for the LT spot and I think Fant wins that LT competition w/ Becton starting at RT.

Got it.  Makes sense for them to do that.  Darnold got killed last year.  

[offbyone]

11 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

These guys still have restrictions on how much time they can spend in the weight room and lifting weights.  If you read into the Apple watch story about Alabama, there were huge questions that the Alabama staff would be using this to gain an advantage by subverting the rules for tracking workouts.  From the USA Today article: 

So these players, while they have access to the gym facilities on campus, can not work out with the coaches monitoring them unless it is their specific workout day.  Same goes for the S&C staff.  If it's not football season or part of the off-season program, these guys are on their own.  

Now, at a big school, like my cousin was at when he worked as a S&C coordinator, you can easily tell which guys are following the prescribed workouts, and those who aren't, as well as those who aren't taking it seriously.  However, you also have different schools that run different offenses.  At Georgia, you have a pro-style offense, and you just saw just about our entire line taken on draft day, including two first round tackles (as well as one last year.). Sam Pittman's guys are ready to play. 

Then you might have a school that runs a lot of spread and movement, or a triple-option offense and requires linemen to be smaller, and more agile.  Take Ismael out of Oregon for example.  Even look at the scouting reports for Penai Sewell.  If he isn't in a ZBS, there is concern over how he does at pass-protection in the NFL, despite being one of the best prospects we've seen at the position in some time.  

It's not just about being the biggest guy out there, who can lift the most weights.  

Nice post.  

I do agree that weight room strength is just a building block and weight room strength is not the same as functional strength on the field.  But it is like the base of the pyramid and even the most unathletic player should be able to achieve good weight room results.

It is a very interesting point about the restrictions placed on S&C staff involvement.  It is a valid issue but there are similarities in the NFL.  The CBA restricts the required time at the park.  Players have to take it up on their own all the summer to be successful in the fall.  While there is a clear advantage to have the team's professional staff working with the players day in and day out, the weight room isn't something you really need much help with.  Once you have a program established you could essentially follow through in any gym.  Most serious vets have their own programs.

So to me, lack of strength just translates to laziness.  If you want to be a NFL offensive lineman you should be in that weight room.  If it takes going to the nfl to figure that out you aren't smart or you just aren't committed.  Charles had 4 years in college to figure this out and one off year where he could have dedicated himself to it.  It isn't the end all.  He can absolutely figure this stuff out.  You hear about players all the time that get more serious about taking care of themselves and how they handle their business.  But it also makes me worry he is a project and not an immediate starter.  The good thing is it also means he must have talent if he can be so competitive while lacking proper strength and conditioning.  

[turtle28]

 

[naptownskinsfan]

11 hours ago, offbyone said:

Nice post.  

I do agree that weight room strength is just a building block and weight room strength is not the same as functional strength on the field.  But it is like the base of the pyramid and even the most unathletic player should be able to achieve good weight room results.

It is a very interesting point about the restrictions placed on S&C staff involvement.  It is a valid issue but there are similarities in the NFL.  The CBA restricts the required time at the park.  Players have to take it up on their own all the summer to be successful in the fall.  While there is a clear advantage to have the team's professional staff working with the players day in and day out, the weight room isn't something you really need much help with.  Once you have a program established you could essentially follow through in any gym.  Most serious vets have their own programs.

So to me, lack of strength just translates to laziness.  If you want to be a NFL offensive lineman you should be in that weight room.  If it takes going to the nfl to figure that out you aren't smart or you just aren't committed.  Charles had 4 years in college to figure this out and one off year where he could have dedicated himself to it.  It isn't the end all.  He can absolutely figure this stuff out.  You hear about players all the time that get more serious about taking care of themselves and how they handle their business.  But it also makes me worry he is a project and not an immediate starter.  The good thing is it also means he must have talent if he can be so competitive while lacking proper strength and conditioning.  

Yes, the CBA restricts required time at the park, and the players can still do their own thing.  But there is no MAXIMUM time they can spend there, that's the key difference from college.  

In some cases, yes, strength might be laziness.  But it could also be the specific workout they want him to do at the school for the specific things they need the player to do.  At the same time, these guys along the offensive line are trying to bulk up and consuming way more calories to do it, and then they have to maintain it.  It's rough, and you should look at the pictures of these guys after they quit playing.  Joe Thomas and Jordan Gross aren't even recognizable.  It's crazy what linemen have to do to maintain their playing weight. 

[turtle28]

8 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Yes, the CBA restricts required time at the park, and the players can still do their own thing.  But there is no MAXIMUM time they can spend there, that's the key difference from college.  

In some cases, yes, strength might be laziness.  But it could also be the specific workout they want him to do at the school for the specific things they need the player to do.  At the same time, these guys along the offensive line are trying to bulk up and consuming way more calories to do it, and then they have to maintain it.  It's rough, and you should look at the pictures of these guys after they quit playing.  Joe Thomas and Jordan Gross aren't even recognizable.  It's crazy what linemen have to do to maintain their playing weight. 

I agree with you, most people won’t though. Most fans will see this as an excuse. We all know Christian has to get better and I hope we all hope that he does because that will mean that if Charles develops too that we will have found our future bookend OTs in the 3rd & 4th round.

I remember when Trent Murray was trying to put on 20 pounds to move from OLB to DE in 2016 - a move they should have started when they drafted him in 2014 - and he was consuming I think around 10,000 calories a day. He said it sucked bc the goal was to eat as much as he could every two hours, and as he said you’d think that it’d be fun to eat that much and to never feel hungry but it was uncomfortable most of the time and he often felt sick.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2016/08/25/i-hate-eating-says-270-pound-nfl-lineman-who-ate-kangaroo-meat/%3foutputType=amp

 

Quote

“It’s just constant [discomfort] because you’re never really hungry,” 

he also said this spring . “You kind of have to watch the clock, and every two to three hours make sure that you’re getting some calories in, weighing yourself constantly.”

“It’s more mentally fatiguing than anything else,” he also said then, via the Washington Times. “That’s why I always say you can always drink calories. Chewing, as dumb as it sounds, burns calories.”

This, truly, is a man who hates to eat. You’d imagine only a tiny fraction Americans have ever been in a similar situation: burdened by too much food.

(The Times also reported that Murphy’s trainer “diversified the proteins in Murphy’s diet, ranging from beef, chicken and 10 different types of fish. More exotic options included venison, ground kangaroo and ostrich.” Now, if I had to eat poor sweet Kanga or darling little Roo, I might also hate eating.

“The toughest part is you’re never really hungry, so you’re just constantly force-feeding yourself, then supplementing with shakes between meals,” he wrote on his website.

https://www.redskins.com/news/with-move-inside-trent-murphy-s-bulking-up-phase-well-underway-17042371

 

Quote

"So that's the hard part," Murphy said of continuing to eat healthy. "Everyone is like, 'Oh, I'm so envious of you, you get to eat everything you want.' Like I wish I could eat that. But it's not like just adding 20 cheeseburgers a day. It's like stuffing your face with healthy food which is like torture almost. So it's a small price to pay but I think it'll be worth it in the end."

Then, Junior Galette tore his second  achillies in two years and they asked Murphy to lose 10-15 pounds during training camp so he could go back to OLB. Ugh 

https://www.redskins.com/news/trent-murphy-s-trust-in-transition-18473303

Quote

"I hate eating so that was definitely harder, having to stuff your face and always worry about what you're going to eat when you go somewhere and your calorie count and everything like that," Murphy said. "So that's a lot harder to manage."

Murphy, who admitted that he's a picky eater, said there were some "pretty filthy-tasting" things that he had to put down.

"Yogurt drinks with spinach and protein powder that you're mixing up with two different types of protein powder so you just kind of get these thick clumpy green shakes that aren't always the most appetizing," Murphy recalled of his worst meals.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by turtle28

[naptownskinsfan]

I found this from someone in the Ravens forum, an article from the Ringer describing how they eat.  This is nuts. 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/5/5/21246544/offensive-linemen-diet-weight-loss-gain-eating

[lavar703]

If Schweitzer starts over Wes Martin then not re-signing Flowers would be even dumber than I thought. Schweitzer is garbage. 

[Dutch DC Football Fan]

8 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I found this from someone in the Ravens forum, an article from the Ringer describing how they eat.  This is nuts. 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/5/5/21246544/offensive-linemen-diet-weight-loss-gain-eating

Thanks! Great article. Just shows me again we love a sport which is crazy 😉

 

[e16bball]

Was curious, so I took a look on PFR to see about Day 3 rookies starting at tackle from day one. 

Based on its results — and perhaps the machine is flawed, so don’t kill me if it didn’t pop up all the true results — only five Day 3 rookies have started 10 or more games at OT since 2013:

David Bakhtiari (GB, 2013)

TJ Clemmings (MIN, 2015)

Seantrel Henderson (BUF, 2014)

Jordan Mills (CHI, 2013)

Joe Haeg (IND, 2016)

Bakhtiari is the only one who played LT — the other 4 guys played exclusively RT, across from guys like Matt Kalil, Cordy Glenn, Jermon Bushrod, and Anthony Castonzo. 

In other words, what we’re discussing with Saahdiq Charles, in terms of the possibility that he starts at LT here from day one, is something that only one guy has accomplished in the last 7 seasons. And that one guy happens to be an all-time draft steal, possible future HOF type player. And he didn’t have to do it without the benefit of an offseason with NFL coaching and training programs to get himself prepared. 

[MikeT14]

5 hours ago, e16bball said:

In other words, what we’re discussing with Saahdiq Charles, in terms of the possibility that he starts at LT here from day one, is something that only one guy has accomplished in the last 7 seasons. And that one guy happens to be an all-time draft steal, possible future HOF type player. And he didn’t have to do it without the benefit of an offseason with NFL coaching and training programs to get himself prepared. 

That's along the lines of what I have been harping on. Too many of you on here have your eggs in the Charles basket. Guys, it's unlikely this pans out very well.

[turtle28]

6 hours ago, e16bball said:

Was curious, so I took a look on PFR to see about Day 3 rookies starting at tackle from day one. 

Based on its results — and perhaps the machine is flawed, so don’t kill me if it didn’t pop up all the true results — only five Day 3 rookies have started 10 or more games at OT since 2013:

David Bakhtiari (GB, 2013)

TJ Clemmings (MIN, 2015)

Seantrel Henderson (BUF, 2014)

Jordan Mills (CHI, 2013)

Joe Haeg (IND, 2016)

Bakhtiari is the only one who played LT — the other 4 guys played exclusively RT, across from guys like Matt Kalil, Cordy Glenn, Jermon Bushrod, and Anthony Castonzo. 

In other words, what we’re discussing with Saahdiq Charles, in terms of the possibility that he starts at LT here from day one, is something that only one guy has accomplished in the last 7 seasons. And that one guy happens to be an all-time draft steal, possible future HOF type player. And he didn’t have to do it without the benefit of an offseason with NFL coaching and training programs to get himself prepared. 

I don't see La’El Collins on that list. That's my comp for Charles. Both played well at LSU. Both would have went higher in the draft if not for an off the field issue. The others guys didn't drop bc of off the field issues. Charles is at worst a 2nd round pick w/o the off the field issues.

Edited May 11, 2020 by turtle28

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, MikeT14 said:

That's along the lines of what I have been harping on. Too many of you on here have your eggs in the Charles basket. Guys, it's unlikely this pans out very well.

What are the other options currently? We no longer have Trent, Geron Christian is terrible, Lucas being a starter is a joke, Penn doesn’t appear to be coming back and Jason Peters wants to play for a contender. It’s not so much putting your eggs all in one basket as that basket is pretty much the only option we have with legit upside. 

[MikeT14]

1 minute ago, lavar703 said:

What are the other options currently? We no longer have Trent, Geron Christian is terrible, Lucas being a starter is a joke, Penn doesn’t appear to be coming back and Jason Peters wants to play for a contender. It’s not so much putting your eggs all in one basket as that basket is pretty much the only option we have with legit upside. 

But I think too many people think it's just going to work out because he has "the most upside"

[lavar703]

1 minute ago, MikeT14 said:

But I think too many people think it's just going to work out because he has "the most upside"

That could be true but I’m more in the “hope” category. I’m fairly certain if we suck again Sewell is going to be our pick so I’m not expecting much from Charles as a LT. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

What are the other options currently? We no longer have Trent, Geron Christian is terrible, Lucas being a starter is a joke, Penn doesn’t appear to be coming back and Jason Peters wants to play for a contender. It’s not so much putting your eggs all in one basket as that basket is pretty much the only option we have with legit upside. 

And the most pessimistic award goes to!! Haha 😂