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Saahdiq Charles has 3rd best footwork in the draft


turtle28

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Round 4: No. 108 overall — Saahdiq Charles, OT, LSU

Scout 1: “We had a good grade on him and he went about where he thought. We just had a lot of (off-the-field) concerns for him. The talent is there if he can get everything else together.”

Scout 2: “I don’t know his story because I didn’t scout him at LSU, but I think that guy is a real talent. You probably know more about the behind the scenes than I do, but based on just the player’s ability, he’s definitely a starter. That’s a good pick. That’s a great value. I mean, this guy’s really talented. I think he’s a left tackle. Could probably play inside. He’s very athletic, can move laterally really well. He can bend. He’s got the athletic and physical traits to be good to very good at his position. We weren’t really looking for offensive linemen early, but he had second-round value.”

Scout 3: “Saahdiq is really, really talented, but he’s got to keep that head on straight. Stay focused on the task at hand and the day to day. The issues are more life skills related. He’s been a good worker when it comes to football. Talented dude. Guy could play guard at some point if the left tackle didn’t work. Saahdiq coming out is probably a cleaner left tackle than (2018 third-round pick) Geron Christian, but I think he has more upside at guard.”

Scout 4: “Great pick, great value. That’s around where we had him. He’s talented. Can move. Great feet. Can play guard or tackle. Playing left tackle would be a tough deal for him right now.”

Source 1: “He’s left tackle capable. There’s no question about that, but you have to look at the talent vs. the character. Now, what are you really getting? He’s messed up somewhat. The one thing you learn from your lessons is that the past often repeats itself.”

 

 

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2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I don't see La’El Collins on that list. That's my comp for Charles. Both played well at LSU. Both would have went higher in the draft if not for an off the field issue. The others guys didn't drop bc of off the field issues. Charles is at worst a 2nd round pick w/o the off the field issues.

La’el Collins isn’t on the list because he played LG as a rookie, with Tyron Smith and Doug Free holding down the OT spots. If Charles was going to start out at guard for a year while he developed an NFL body and NFL work habits, and then was penciled in to take over RT next year, like your comp, I think I’d feel much better about his trajectory. Just dumping him at LT straight out of college and hoping he doesn’t suck isn’t really an inspiring plan. 

Lots of guys are “second round talents” who drop down the draft board for various reasons. One of them in 7 years has been a full-time starter at LT. 

And a weird way, everyone keeps treating “he was only available there because of his character concerns” as a positive thing. I understand why, as it means his talent and upside are greater than the typical 4th round pick, but I think it’s a big problem. No one wanted this guy, despite him being a talented true LT prospect who won a national championship, because he’s such a knucklehead — they took TEN other OTs over him because they couldn’t trust him. And we think this is the guy who’s going to get himself ready to be an NFL blindside protector in time for week one? He’s the guy who’s going to remake his body, to clean up all his technical flaws, to learn the offense and the new blocking scheme in the course of this offseason? Color me skeptical. 

The funny thing is, I really like a lot of what I saw from Charles on the field. I have real, genuine hope for him.  But I think a lot of people, including perhaps the organization, are living in fantasy land if they’re actually counting on this guy to be a major contributor right away. I don’t think he’s Bakhtiari. 

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2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I don't see La’El Collins on that list. That's my comp for Charles. Both played well at LSU. Both would have went higher in the draft if not for an off the field issue. 

That's kinda where a lot of the comparisons end. Collins is big and strong up top. Has pretty damn good hands, and longer arms. Charles actually has better feet probably (a lot of the reason why people thought Collins might be a better guard). Your comp is just about the story being similar, but not on play style I assume. 

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1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

I mean, what did I say that was wrong? 

You’re forgetting where the Redskins OL was last summer. It is actually in a better place now than it was last July, and it's only May.

Last summer Trent was refusing to play until he got a new contract and the training staff was fired. Last offseason we were trying Ereck Flowers out at LT and because of that, we had no clue if he would work out at LG.

This year we have a veteran OT & OG we signed in FA who maybe aren't world beaters, but we didn't even have that last offseason at this point. I mean Lucas was a good run blocker and didn't give up a sack last year while starting half of the year for the bears.

Also, Christian and Martin did play in a few games last year and didn't play awful. At this point last year we didn't know if either of them could play at all.

We also drafted Charles and Ismael too. Charles was the starting LT on a National Championship team and showed well.

I think you're forgetting what shape we were in last May, June, July and August until we signed Penn, and almost everyone had no faith in Flowers as a guard, in fact most were laughing about us even trying it.

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10 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

That's kinda where a lot of the comparisons end. Collins is big and strong up top. Has pretty damn good hands, and longer arms. Charles actually has better feet probably (a lot of the reason why people thought Collins might be a better guard). Your comp is just about the story being similar, but not on play style I assume. 

Well yeah, E listed a bunch of guys for his narrative but left out Collins.

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24 minutes ago, e16bball said:

La’el Collins isn’t on the list because he played LG as a rookie, with Tyron Smith and Doug Free holding down the OT spots. If Charles was going to start out at guard for a year while he developed an NFL body and NFL work habits, and then was penciled in to take over RT next year, like your comp, I think I’d feel much better about his trajectory. Just dumping him at LT straight out of college and hoping he doesn’t suck isn’t really an inspiring plan. 

Lots of guys are “second round talents” who drop down the draft board for various reasons. One of them in 7 years has been a full-time starter at LT. 

And a weird way, everyone keeps treating “he was only available there because of his character concerns” as a positive thing. I understand why, as it means his talent and upside are greater than the typical 4th round pick, but I think it’s a big problem. No one wanted this guy, despite him being a talented true LT prospect who won a national championship, because he’s such a knucklehead — they took TEN other OTs over him because they couldn’t trust him. And we think this is the guy who’s going to get himself ready to be an NFL blindside protector in time for week one? He’s the guy who’s going to remake his body, to clean up all his technical flaws, to learn the offense and the new blocking scheme in the course of this offseason? Color me skeptical. 

The funny thing is, I really like a lot of what I saw from Charles on the field. I have real, genuine hope for him.  But I think a lot of people, including perhaps the organization, are living in fantasy land if they’re actually counting on this guy to be a major contributor right away. I don’t think he’s Bakhtiari. 

I don't remember anyone thinking Bakhtiari was going to be as good as he was so quickly either, but he was developed and it worked out. I don't know if it's going to work out but some talent is there to be developed. We have a great OL coach who's developed a lot of talent over the years. We have a HC who's good at discipline, building a family type atmosphere and being like a father to a lot of young football players.

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11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You’re forgetting where the Redskins OL was last summer. It is actually in a better place now than it was last July, and it's only May.

Last summer Trent was refusing to play until he got a new contract and the training staff was fired. Last offseason we were trying Ereck Flowers out at LT and because of that, we had no clue if he would work out at LG.

This year we have a veteran OT & OG we signed in FA who maybe aren't world beaters, but we didn't even have that last offseason at this point. I mean Lucas was a good run blocker and didn't give up a sack last year while starting half of the year for the bears.

Also, Christian and Martin did play in a few games last year and didn't play awful. At this point last year we didn't know if either of them could play at all.

We also drafted Charles and Ismael too. Charles was the starting LT on a National Championship team and showed well.

I think you're forgetting what shape we were in last May, June, July and August until we signed Penn, and almost everyone had no faith in Flowers as a guard, in fact my were laughing about us even trying it.

How is it in a better place? We signed a bunch of camp fodder. I don’t care what PFF says about a 28-year old Lucas who’s going to be 29 by the start of the season and on his 5th team since 2014. It’s probably about the same as it was last off-season. We don’t know if Wes Martin can play LG. Schweitzer is terrible. 

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38 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

How is it in a better place? We signed a bunch of camp fodder. I don’t care what PFF says about a 28-year old Lucas who’s going to be 29 by the start of the season and on his 5th team since 2014. It’s probably about the same as it was last off-season. We don’t know if Wes Martin can play LG. Schweitzer is terrible. 

They're more than camp fodder. Continuing to have this point of view and continuing to just say players are terrible bc they didn't sign someone you wanted them to is just an awful take.

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4 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

They're more than camp fodder. Continuing to have this point of view and continuing to just say players are terrible bc they didn't sign someone you wanted them to is just an awful take.

It's not an awful take. It's a reasonable one. Your take(s) of these being okay solutions fall under that umbrella as well.

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2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

They're more than camp fodder. Continuing to have this point of view and continuing to just say players are terrible bc they didn't sign someone you wanted them to is just an awful take.

How is it an awful take? Falcons fans couldn't wait for Schweitzer to leave, Lucas has in fact been on 5 times since 2014 and is going on 29, Wes Martin looked good at RG yet we have no idea how he'll do at LG, Charles could totally fall flat on his face considering he's a fourth rounder. Our best OL cannot stay healthy for 16-games and for some reason we let Flowers walk when we have a buttload of cap space that we didn't use. You wouldn't be happy with Conklin and Flowers right now? Wouldn't that make you more comfortable as opposed to the line we're putting Haskins behind? 

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4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Well yeah, E listed a bunch of guys for his narrative but left out Collins.

As you know from the post you next quoted, I didn’t leave Collins out. He didn’t fit the criteria, and in fact he fits my “narrative” perfectly because he started at guard and then worked his way up to RT. Which is definitely not what a lot of folks are expecting to be the path for Charles. 

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I don't remember anyone thinking Bakhtiari was going to be as good as he was so quickly either, but he was developed and it worked out. I don't know if it's going to work out but some talent is there to be developed. We have a great OL coach who's developed a lot of talent over the years. We have a HC who's good at discipline, building a family type atmosphere and being like a father to a lot of young football players.

I‘m with you. I like the guy’s talent. I like what Matsko has done with OL over the years in Carolina. I like Rivera as a preacher of discipline and accountability and leader of men and all that good stuff — although I think Coach O has a pretty good reputation for a lot of those traits too, and he had to sit Charles for half the season while chasing a crown. I still think he has a good chance to be at least a starting RT if he gets things under control off the field and dedicates himself to being the best player he can.

My only major point here is about the 2020 season. It’s looking a lot like “make or break” for Haskins, and I don’t think we have a starting LT on the roster. I don’t hate any of these guys, I just think there’s more reason to think they can’t be capable LTs (in 2020 at least) than that they can. Which concerns me, particularly given that we’re still very much up in the air at LG and also at most of the receiving positions (WR1 being the exception there, barring a sophomore slump by McLaurin). 

I guess the short version of what I’m saying is, I like Charles as a prospect. I just don’t like him as the presumptive 2020 LT starter 🤷🏻‍♂️

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4 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

It's not an awful take. It's a reasonable one. Your take(s) of these being okay solutions fall under that umbrella as well.

Saying we signed a bunch of ”camp fodder” and terrible offensive lineman is not a reasonable take.

Lucas played well vs the likes of Ryan Kerrigan, Demarcus Lawrence, Preston Smith, Danielle Hunter andJoey Bosa last year. He gave up one sack and had zero penalties.

In what world is that camp fodder?

Just throwing around the worst terms you have in your vocabulary w/o cursing about prospects we've drafted or players we have signed in free agency is not reasonable. It's basically going off the deep end before we've even hit the water.

https://www.redskins.com/news/redskins-cornelius-lucas-five-things-to-know

About 45 minutes before the Bears played the Redskins on Monday Night Football in September, offensive line coach Harry Hiestan gave Lucas some surprising news: the usual starter, Bobby Massie, was unable to play because of vertigo, and Lucas was filling in for him. It marked Lucas' third start over the past four seasons.

Going up against perennial Pro Bowl edge rusher Ryan Kerrigan, Lucas performed so well that he earned the Bears' "Sweep the Sheds" award, which was "given after every win to a player who is not too big to do the little things," according to the team's website.

"One guy I thought that played great was Cornelius Lucas," offensive coordinator Mark Helfrich said. "That was a total surprise to everybody, and nobody blinked. He's going against their best player all night. That was a huge bright spot for that group and just our team in general."

Quote

4. He was named the Bears' most improved player.

Not only did Lucas play significantly more last season than he had in previous years, but he more than held his own along the Bears' offensive line.

For his efforts, Lucas was named the Bears' most improved player in 2019, according to Pro Football Focus. He finished the year with an overall grade of 72.2, the first time in his career he graded above 65.0.

Edited by turtle28
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48 minutes ago, e16bball said:

As you know from the post you next quoted, I didn’t leave Collins out. He didn’t fit the criteria, and in fact he fits my “narrative” perfectly because he started at guard and then worked his way up to RT. Which is definitely not what a lot of folks are expecting to be the path for Charles. 

I‘m with you. I like the guy’s talent. I like what Matsko has done with OL over the years in Carolina. I like Rivera as a preacher of discipline and accountability and leader of men and all that good stuff — although I think Coach O has a pretty good reputation for a lot of those traits too, and he had to sit Charles for half the season while chasing a crown. I still think he has a good chance to be at least a starting RT if he gets things under control off the field and dedicates himself to being the best player he can.

My only major point here is about the 2020 season. It’s looking a lot like “make or break” for Haskins, and I don’t think we have a starting LT on the roster. I don’t hate any of these guys, I just think there’s more reason to think they can’t be capable LTs (in 2020 at least) than that they can. Which concerns me, particularly given that we’re still very much up in the air at LG and also at most of the receiving positions (WR1 being the exception there, barring a sophomore slump by McLaurin). 

I guess the short version of what I’m saying is, I like Charles as a prospect. I just don’t like him as the presumptive 2020 LT starter 🤷🏻‍♂️

I hear you. I guess I just see Rivera going with almost all young players & cheaper vets except the ones he inherited and I don't see them signing a high cost vet as a stop-gap. 

I'm also not sure it's a make or break season for Haskins. It's assumed that if the team plays awful that Haskins will be replaced by another rookie, but I think that all depends on how Haskins plays.  Historically speaking, Rivera has always given his young players time to grow and develop. I think the only way Haskins is replaced is if he's awful and we are #1 overall. It could happen, but I think it's unlikely that the Redskins and Haskins are that awful.

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43 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Saying we signed a bunch of ”camp fodder” and terrible offensive lineman is not a reasonable take.

Lucas played well vs the likes of Ryan Kerrigan, Demarcus Lawrence, Preston Smith, Danielle Hunter andJoey Bosa last year. He gave up one sack and had zero penalties.

In what world is that camp fodder?

Just throwing around the worst terms you have in your vocabulary w/o cursing about prospects we've drafted or players we have signed in free agency is not reasonable. It's basically going off the deep end before we've even hit the water.

https://www.redskins.com/news/redskins-cornelius-lucas-five-things-to-know

 

 

Lucas had some solid performances for sure.  He might turn into being a lottery winner of a signing where we got it right and everyone else got it wrong.  But we have to recognize that if there was even a mild quorum of NFL evaluators who viewed him as a starting left tackle then we wouldn't have got him for peanuts.  

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