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turtle28

Saahdiq Charles has 3rd best footwork in the draft

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20 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Not Mark Tyler. I’ll ready anybody from Hogs Havens stuff except that clown. 

I ripped Mark Tyler a new one a few days ago and a bunch of Hogs Haven’t lovers came to his defense. We both made up, but I still don’t like that guy either. I called him out for always acting like a know it all. 

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14 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I ripped Mark Tyler a new one a few days ago and a bunch of Hogs Haven’t lovers came to his defense. We both made up, but I still don’t like that guy either. I called him out for always acting like a know it all. 

He’s a tool. The website is generally good but his named attached to it hurts the appeal. 

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On 5/22/2020 at 6:31 PM, lavar703 said:

Not Mark Tyler. I’ll read anybody from Hogs Havens stuff except that clown. 

You didn’t miss a ton. He makes four points:

1. The Redskins don’t have a LT. Charles could be a LT. 

2. Saahdiq Charles is a good player. He makes the claim that Charles outplayed Wills and Leatherwood in the Bama game, which I think is pretty off-base given that Wills was basically unblemished in that game. 

3. The off-field issues are concerning. He has structure here, but he has to WANT to be great.

4. To earn a spot, he needs to build chemistry with his linemates, earn respect from his teammates, and learn things from the playbook and meetings. 

...

I still think the biggest Charles news since drafting him is the recent indication from Keim that they plan to try him at guard as well (and they consider Christian the likely LT). I’m not sure I see him as a guard, but Matsko has had a lot of his most recent successes at the position (with Norwell and Trai Turner), so I’ll defer to his expertise on that one. That might be putting him on the La’el Collins path we’ve discussed here in the past (start at guard, then kick out to RT). 

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Just now, e16bball said:

You didn’t miss a ton. He makes four points:

1. The Redskins don’t have a LT. Charles could be a LT. 

2. Saahdiq Charles is a good player. He makes the claim that Charles outplayed Wills and Leatherwood in the Bama game, which I think is pretty off-base given that Wills was basically unblemished in that game. 

3. The off-field issues are concerning. He has structure here, but he has to WANT to be great.

4. To earn a spot, he needs to build chemistry with his linemates, earn respect from his teammates, and learn things from the playbook and meetings. 

...

I still think the biggest Charles news since drafting him is the recent indication from Keim that they plan to try him at guard as well (and they consider Christian the likely LT). I’m not sure I see him as a guard, but Matsko has had a lot of his most recent successes at the position (with Norwell and Trai Turner), so I’ll defer to his expertise on that one. That might be putting him on the La’el Collins path we’ve discussed here in the past (start at guard, then kick out to RT). 

I agree with the end part about moving pieces around.  At the very least, I think there is a pecking order for how they are going to decide who gets first (and even second) crack at the LT spot.  And until then, it's smart to get Charles some reps at another spot.  

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38 minutes ago, e16bball said:

You didn’t miss a ton. He makes four points:

1. The Redskins don’t have a LT. Charles could be a LT. 

2. Saahdiq Charles is a good player. He makes the claim that Charles outplayed Wills and Leatherwood in the Bama game, which I think is pretty off-base given that Wills was basically unblemished in that game. 

3. The off-field issues are concerning. He has structure here, but he has to WANT to be great.

4. To earn a spot, he needs to build chemistry with his linemates, earn respect from his teammates, and learn things from the playbook and meetings. 

...

I still think the biggest Charles news since drafting him is the recent indication from Keim that they plan to try him at guard as well (and they consider Christian the likely LT). I’m not sure I see him as a guard, but Matsko has had a lot of his most recent successes at the position (with Norwell and Trai Turner), so I’ll defer to his expertise on that one. That might be putting him on the La’el Collins path we’ve discussed here in the past (start at guard, then kick out to RT). 

The move to guard has to be due to his arm length. 

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1 hour ago, e16bball said:

You didn’t miss a ton. He makes four points:

1. The Redskins don’t have a LT. Charles could be a LT. 

2. Saahdiq Charles is a good player. He makes the claim that Charles outplayed Wills and Leatherwood in the Bama game, which I think is pretty off-base given that Wills was basically unblemished in that game. 

3. The off-field issues are concerning. He has structure here, but he has to WANT to be great.

4. To earn a spot, he needs to build chemistry with his linemates, earn respect from his teammates, and learn things from the playbook and meetings. 

...

I still think the biggest Charles news since drafting him is the recent indication from Keim that they plan to try him at guard as well (and they consider Christian the likely LT). I’m not sure I see him as a guard, but Matsko has had a lot of his most recent successes at the position (with Norwell and Trai Turner), so I’ll defer to his expertise on that one. That might be putting him on the La’el Collins path we’ve discussed here in the past (start at guard, then kick out to RT). 

Rivera/Matsko also have Ex-Panthers OL, Travelle Wharton already working with Charles to help him along. And, I read that Keith Ismael and Charles are working together - I guess virtually - on the playbook etc. Which, is a good sign for Charles. Rivera already has high character guys working with Charles and helping him in his development/maturity. 

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1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

The move to guard has to be due to his arm length. 

This is from a few years ago, so I am absolutely open if someone can find a more recent article, but PFF found no correlation then between arm length and performance at either tackle spot 

https://www.pff.com/news/does-arm-length-affect-ot-play

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58 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

This is from a few years ago, so I am absolutely open if someone can find a more recent article, but PFF found no correlation then between arm length and performance at either tackle spot 

https://www.pff.com/news/does-arm-length-affect-ot-play

I don’t think arm length is the be-all, end-all either.

But I do think it’s a little bit strange that he even discussed the limitations of his analysis and still didn’t mention the fairly obvious selection bias in the natural sample. If you have 32-inch arms, the only way you ever play even a snap at LT in the NFL is if you’re absolutely outstanding at everything else. You don’t even get in the door. They move you inside or tell you to consider trying out TE (or pro wrestling). No one who is weak, raw, heavy footed, or technically flawed gets plugged in at LT in the NFL if they have 32-inch arms. So that sample is made up primarily of guys who have already been forced to clear numerous other obstacles in order to get onto the field. 

It would be kinda like if they took the average SAT score of high school seniors and compared it to the average scores of the gifted and talented kids who take the test in 7th/8th grade, finding that the averages were similar, and determining that age plays no meaningful role in ability to take the SATs. The young kids had to prove they were especially intelligent and effective at taking tests in order to get the chance to be there in the first place. The fact that the elite 8th graders did as well as (or better than) the average 12th grader doesn’t really mean that age isn’t a factor.

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Anyway, I don’t really think Saahdiq’s arm length (33 inches) is a disqualifier. 

As I think about this more, maybe they think a year at guard would help him focus on what he needs to improve in order to be a top-flight OT? His biggest flaws, to me, are his initial punch, ability to anchor, and lack of leverage/power to drive opponents. Each of those would be at the forefront for him in order to become a capable OG. If you can learn to hold your own against the power rush of guys like Da’Ron Payne and Matt Ioannidis in practice for a year, it might be a lot easier to withstand power from guys like Brandon Graham and Demarcus Lawrence down the road. 

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1 minute ago, e16bball said:

Anyway, I don’t really think Saahdiq’s arm length (33 inches) is a disqualifier. 

As I think about this more, maybe they think a year at guard would help him focus on what he needs to improve in order to be a top-flight OT? His biggest flaws, to me, are his initial punch, ability to anchor, and lack of leverage/power to drive opponents. Each of those would be at the forefront for him in order to become a capable OG. If you can learn to hold your own against the power rush of guys like Da’Ron Payne and Matt Ioannidis in practice for a year, it might be a lot easier to withstand power from guys like Brandon Graham and Demarcus Lawrence down the road. 

Yeah, I absolutely think that could be the case.  It gives him reps, and he can take second team reps at tackle, and maybe even transition there late in the season.  

I just wish we had concrete things right now to look at, instead of speculating.  

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1 minute ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Yeah, I absolutely think that could be the case.  It gives him reps, and he can take second team reps at tackle, and maybe even transition there late in the season.  

I just wish we had concrete things right now to look at, instead of speculating.  

😂 very much agreed.

We’ve all run these things through our minds so much, with such precious little actual data to go on, we’ve all got these very specific, very refined ideas of where things are going — and we’ll almost certainly all turn out to be completely wrong on a half-dozen or more things we’re totally convinced are real at the moment. 

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30 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Anyway, I don’t really think Saahdiq’s arm length (33 inches) is a disqualifier. 

As I think about this more, maybe they think a year at guard would help him focus on what he needs to improve in order to be a top-flight OT? His biggest flaws, to me, are his initial punch, ability to anchor, and lack of leverage/power to drive opponents. Each of those would be at the forefront for him in order to become a capable OG. If you can learn to hold your own against the power rush of guys like Da’Ron Payne and Matt Ioannidis in practice for a year, it might be a lot easier to withstand power from guys like Brandon Graham and Demarcus Lawrence down the road. 

Kind of like it helped Ereck Flowers moving to guard last year to move on those things.

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