Saints release G Larry Warford

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Dome said:

But did you see before the draft/free agency where saints fans wanted Warford to be restructured/extended to lower his cap hit? And where I called him an “OK” starter and assumed he’d be cut rather than traded once Ruiz was announced?

Not exactly glowing reviews by Saints fans. 

But it's not exactly "burn him at the stake" either. Everyone has a guy who you'd like to see restructure, doesn't mean you want him gone or traded - it means you want him to restructure. I've wanted JJ Watt to restructure (which he's done) doesn't mean I want him gone.

It's business with restructuring, nothing more or less.

Scenario - Grant Delpit is the pick at 24. Is anyone here saying "Crap, Warford is starting for another 16+ games, that's going to be a problem..."

I highly doubt it.

1 hour ago, Dome said:

If saints fans are doing mental gymnastics to downplay Warford’s value, what are teams doing by not offering up peanuts to get him? Mental gymnastics to convince themselves he’s not even worth a 7th? Coaches apparently agreed he’s not worth giving up a 7th round pick for, but saints fans who say he’s really not that good anymore are doing mental gymnastics? Nah, can’t get on board there.

It's simple process of elimination. 

- Saints have five starters on the OL, just drafted #6, an interior OL.

- McCoy was a very impressive rookie, he's going nowhere.

- Peat just signed a new contract, he's going to stick around.

- Warford is the odd man out at $8.5mm.

Why give up a pick under those circumstances? All things considered, G is important, but not so important to where it's all or nothing (unless it's a guy like Zach Martin or Quentin Nelson). Let Warford hit the market, set your budget (under $8.5mm, ideally) and let it play out. 

[ET80]

1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said:

I mean where am I in that quote tree?

You're asking how it got to 12 pages. Last I checked, you're not the only one commenting.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Dome said:

he also failed to mention a convo he and I had immediately after round 1

No doubt you changed your tune AFTER the pick was made - at the time, I've shown your knee jerk response.

No need to try to change that - it is what it is, everyone does it. Hell, look at my before and afters on Tytus Howard last draft. 

Again - hypothetical, if you went another direction instead of Ruiz, are you listing G as a position that needs to be replaced or are you content with Warford?

[sammymvpknight]

2 hours ago, ET80 said:

It isn't that. It's just that a few weeks ago, the selection of Ruiz wasn't exactly met with "all right, our OL is SET, good bye Larry!"

For example:

 

 

 

 

 

For the most part, Ruiz was a waste of a pick over other needs, and Warford OR Peat wouldn't lose snaps to a rookie. Less than a month later...and it's telling Warford wasn't traded for a 7th?

We've all seen this before with our own teams - once a guy is gone, we do all sort of mental gymnastics to justify the decision and devalue their old guy in a lot of creative ways. I did similar things during th Jadevion Clowney trade, so you're not alone.

Just stop trying to pretend we don't see that for what it is.

It had much to do with the center position. I thought that guard would be the position to be upgraded if the Saints went IOL because McCoy was solid and Warford was meh. My error was not realizing that the Saints would consider moving McCoy to RG. With that context, the Ruiz pick is less shocking. 

[ET80]

2 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

It had much to do with the center position. I thought that guard would be the position to be upgraded if the Saints went IOL because McCoy was solid and Warford was meh. My error was not realizing that the Saints would consider moving McCoy to RG. With that context, the Ruiz pick is less shocking. 

This is fair, but from what I gleaned, IOL wasn't really a concern - full stop. My understanding is that LB or S was a higher priority, with guys on the board who fit needs.

[Dome]

40 minutes ago, ET80 said:

No doubt you changed your tune AFTER the pick was made - at the time, I've shown your knee jerk response.

my knee jerk response, as I explained, was less about Warford and more about the confusion on what Payton was doing after leading people to believe HE was OK with Warford based on not asking him to restructure or anything.

and what is a “knee jerk” response if not a response made in an instant without thinking everything through? 

do you think the first thought you have about something is always the most accurate? If it’s not, does that mean you’re doing mental gymnastics and every time you consider everything else and change your mind?

 

also... and this is HUGE.... my knee jerk respons was that Warford would be CUT not traded... what does that tell you about how I valued him and what expected him to be worth? 

that was my knee jerk response, and you quoted it...

 

Quote

No need to try to change that - it is what it is, everyone does it. Hell, look at my before and afters on Tytus Howard last draft. 

Before the draft my mock offseason involved forcing Warford into an extension that paid him less than his current deal... That’s what I wanted in order for him to stay... 

so I was SUPER stoked on him, as you can tell.

 

Keeping that that in mind... what exactly did I change?

I went from “he’s not worth what we’re paying him, we need him to be cheaper moving forward” to “he’s no that good any more, he’s a veteran in the twilight of his career who doesn’t look motivated”

Is that really a huge leap?

 

i think you got the wrong guy, man..

 

40 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Again - hypothetical, if you went another direction instead of Ruiz, are you listing G as a position that needs to be replaced or are you content with Warford?

1) being content with Warford doesn’t mean you think he’s good... it just means you dont think he’s going to ruin your teams chances.

2) people (me included) had G as one of our three needs all season.  WR, LB, and G were the big 3... some might have CB over G...

 Did we expect a starter round 1? No... definitely not. But did we expect it to be addressed at some point? Yes
 

Definitely didn’t need a safety, btw... we have 2 good starters there...

Edited May 12, 2020 by Dome

[perrynoid]

Against my better judgement, I will wade into the fray...should we be considering salary cap space for evaluating potential landing spots?  Scheme fit?  A lot of teams are perilously close to the cap, and might not be able to afford Warford's salary at his pre-release contract (this was 8.5 mil, correct?) and thus, couldn't trade anything for him under his previous contract.  Also, even if teams valued him and had the cap space, he might not be a good scheme fit.  Just my 2 cents worth.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

[ET80]

40 minutes ago, Dome said:

my knee jerk response, as I explained, was less about Warford and more about the confusion on what Payton was doing after leading people to believe HE was OK with Warford based on not asking him to restructure or anything

So what was your reaction with no restructure? You had to figure Warford was part of the plan, right? You may have had concerns about it, but they were minor, right?

40 minutes ago, Dome said:

do you think the first thought you have about something is always the most accurate? If it’s not, does that mean you’re doing mental gymnastics and every time you consider everything else and change your mind?

Yes, exactly - and I've said that everyone does it. You (individually and collectively) are no different.

40 minutes ago, Dome said:

also... and this is HUGE.... my knee jerk respons was that Warford would be CUT not traded... what does that tell you about how I valued him and what expected him to be worth? 

It tells me you understand that any sort of value Warford may have had was torpedoed the minute Ruiz was the pick. Whether or not he has value is irrelevant, he had no value to the Saints from that moment.

You even acknowledge as much:

On 4/28/2020 at 1:04 AM, Dome said:

Unfortunately, the Saints gave up most of their leverage when they drafted Ruiz. We're not gonna pay Warford to sit on the bench, and everyone knows it. Potential suitors may be bidding against another team that wants him and that could inflate his value a little, but teams know we need to trade him.

There was (and is) no leverage after pick 24. You're right in saying nobody expected to park $8mm on the bench, so your playbook was limited to cutting him, period.

40 minutes ago, Dome said:

Before the draft my mock offseason involved forcing Warford into an extension that paid him less than his current deal... That’s what I wanted in order for him to stay... 

so I was SUPER stoked on him, as you can tell.

Sarcasm noted, but restructuring a contract is pretty rank and file, so it's a null tell at best. Tom Brady restructures about every 3rd year, did the Patriots not like him from ages 30-35? Watt restructured a few times, I can say he's respected in Houston. So, saying you want him to restructure doesn't really indicate anything. Now, had you called a trade or cut? I'd be more inclined to buy into this devaluation.

Furthermore, he's the only OL who'd be in position for a restructure, right? McCoy and Ramczyk are on rookie deals and will be banking big money one day, Peat just got a deal, Armstead just re-did his deal a few years ago - low hanging fruit is that Warford is the guy who has to sacrifice some sheckels - not just for now, but for when Ramczyk gets his big boy deal. Right?

40 minutes ago, Dome said:

1) being content with Warford doesn’t mean you think he’s good... it just means you dont think he’s going to ruin your teams chances.

2) people (me included) had G as one of our three needs all season.  WR, LB, and G were the big 3... some might have CB over G...

 Did we expect a starter round 1? No... definitely not. But did we expect it to be addressed at some point? Yes

1. So you would have been content. That's all I'm asking. It was a "nice to have" but not a "need to have" to replace him. Fair? That's a far cry from what I'm reading in this thread, where he's being devalued because 31 other teams knew it was only a matter of time before he was cut. (Even YOLO Bill knew he didn't have to trade anything! He's interested, he'll pay top dollar, but even HE knew nobody needed to give up a pick!)

2. In your own words, you didn't expect a Day 1 starter. But you got one, and now you're in a pivot. Sure - hypothetically, you improved. But it isn't as if you were in a bad position to start with (even if you're hoping he restructures, which is a null tell - as I stated above).

That's all I am saying. Don't devalue him because the Saints lost their ability to negotiate a pick for him. It has nothing to do with the player, it has everything to do with how a good team (which the Saints are) doesn't let $8mm allocated for IOL sit on the bench.

[Soko]

 

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

Again - hypothetical, if you went another direction instead of Ruiz, are you listing G as a position that needs to be replaced or are you content with Warford?

FWIW, guys in the Saints forum called Warford very capable, very serviceable, better than Peat, etc. Don’t think Dome was one of them, but there was at least a portion of guys that thought Warford was a “good” player, albeit not word for word. Which I don’t feel is a concession, teams cut good or solid players all the time - scheme fit, contract, etc. No biggy. 

[Dome]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

So what was your reaction with no restructure? You had to figure Warford was part of the plan, right? You may have had concerns about it, but they were minor, right?

My reaction with no restructure was "In Payton I Trust" like most fans fall back on when the coach doesn't do what they want.

I wanted him to be restructured. I thought he was paid too much. I mocked a restructure because I wanted us to pay him less this year and move on next for a similar dead-hit.

What more do you need? I can't personally force him into a restructure. I don't have Payton on speed dial.

I said he is "OK" coming off 3 Pro Bowls and wanted him to get paid less. (Remember, when I said he was just "OK" that was my knee jerk reaction.. so it must be right)

 

Quote

Yes, exactly - and I've said that everyone does it. You (individually and collectively) are no different.

A knee jerk reaction that later gets clarified/altered does NOT mean you're doing mental gymnastics to get there. That's a seriously flawed argument you're making. By extension you're basically saying people's heads can't clear with time to think and that the heat of the moment is the best time for decision making and solid arguments.

You're arguing like a knee jerk reaction based on instinct/knowledge and a knee jerk reaction based on emotion are the same thing. They're not.

But if you want to stick to this logic, you have to admit me saying he's just "OK" has as much weight.

 

Quote

It tells me you understand that any sort of value Warford may have had was torpedoed the minute Ruiz was the pick. Whether or not he has value is irrelevant, he had no value to the Saints from that moment.

But that's irrelevant to the discussion we're having.

I'm not arguing he had value to the Saints, I'm arguing if he was seen as moderately valuable to other teams they would've given up a 7th for him to secure him before another team could.

He obviously is not seen as a piece that is critical, or even important, to anyone's plans. He's just OK.

 

Quote

You even acknowledge as much:

There was (and is) no leverage after pick 24. You're right in saying nobody expected to park $8mm on the bench, so your playbook was limited to cutting him, period.

But that's irrelevant to the discussion we're having.

I'm not arguing he had value to the Saints, I'm arguing if he was seen as moderately valuable to other teams they would've given up a 7th for him to secure him before another team could.

He obviously is not seen as a piece that is critical, or even important, to anyone's plans.  He's just OK.

 

Quote

Sarcasm noted, but restructuring a contract is pretty rank and file, so it's a null tell at best. Tom Brady restructures about every 3rd year, did the Patriots not like him from ages 30-35? Watt restructured a few times, I can say he's respected in Houston. So, saying you want him to restructure doesn't really indicate anything. Now, had you called a trade or cut? I'd be more inclined to buy into this devaluation.

My mock had him restructuring specifically to lower the cap one year and pushing his dead cap into a season when (I suspected that) Brees will be gone. I wanted him cheaper this year and mocked the restructure so he could be cut the year after.

That indicates nothing? I think that's an issue on your end.

 

Quote

Furthermore, he's the only OL who'd be in position for a restructure, right? McCoy and Ramczyk are on rookie deals and will be banking big money one day, Peat just got a deal, Armstead just re-did his deal a few years ago - low hanging fruit is that Warford is the guy who has to sacrifice some sheckels - not just for now, but for when Ramczyk gets his big boy deal. Right?

1) I restructured Armstead in the mock as well

2) Peat hadn't gotten his extension yet IRL, I had him walking in FA in the mock.

So no, this angle doesn't work.

 

Quote

1. So you would have been content. That's all I'm asking. It was a "nice to have" but not a "need to have" to replace him. Fair? That's a far cry from what I'm reading in this thread, where he's being devalued because 31 other teams knew it was only a matter of time before he was cut. (Even YOLO Bill knew he didn't have to trade anything! He's interested, he'll pay top dollar, but even HE knew nobody needed to give up a pick!)

I would've been content because I have no other choice. I can't change anything. 

I wanted change. I wanted a restructure. I wanted him to make less.

This is all documented in my mock.

He would've been $3m less aginst the cap this year, and only $1m more in dead space (once Brees was gone) next year.

 

As for the bold: If BoB pays top dollar, he screwed up.... just so you know. He could've had him for $8.5m and a 7th. That's not top dollar. Now you're just talking smack without really thinking about what you're saying, cause that doesn’t even make sense if there was a point you were trying to make.

 

Quote

2. In your own words, you didn't expect a Day 1 starter. But you got one, and now you're in a pivot. Sure - hypothetically, you improved. But it isn't as if you were in a bad position to start with (even if you're hoping he restructures, which is a null tell - as I stated above).

The biggest reason, by FAR, that we lost in the first round of playoffs this year because our guards were not good. That was our biggest flaw in that game. Watch the game and try to tell me we had a bigger issue than our guards in that game.

Same deal with our loss to the Falcons. Watch that game and tell me our guards didn't absolutely **** the bed.

It wasn't our biggest need all season, no.. but it was our biggest need in the most important game and Payton made it clear he was not happy with our IOL after the game... which is why some of us were surprised when Peat got re-signed and Warford wasn't restructured.

 

Quote

That's all I am saying. Don't devalue him because the Saints lost their ability to negotiate a pick for him. It has nothing to do with the player, it has everything to do with how a good team (which the Saints are) doesn't let $8mm allocated for IOL sit on the bench.

I've been devaluing him since the end of the season (mocked a pay restructure that made him cheaper and easier to move on from next year) and expected him to be cut (hoping we could squeeze a late pick out of him maybe) the second we signed Ruiz. 

I went from "lets trade him for a can of old english" to "hey maybe we can get a pick for him?" back to "yeah, he's just not that good" after we didn't get the pipe-dream pick and you're acting like it's some giant flip-flop.

Like I said, you've got the wrong guy. You're barking up the wrong tree. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Dome

[Dome]

39 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

 

FWIW, guys in the Saints forum called Warford very capable, very serviceable, better than Peat, etc. Don’t think Dome was one of them, but there was at least a portion of guys that thought Warford was a “good” player, albeit not word for word. Which I don’t feel is a concession, teams cut good or solid players all the time - scheme fit, contract, etc. No biggy. 

Warford is absolutely better than Peat.

 

That's not saying anything about Warford. I hate Peat.

[Dome]

2 hours ago, perrynoid said:

he might not be a good scheme fit

He’s a good scheme fit if you want a fat guy who can move other fat guys out of the way. Lots of teams can use that that guy.

But watching him move in space or working on finesse rushers is tough.

Also watching him at the end of a game was tough, and the end of the season. 

He needs to not be so fat.

 

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

Scenario - Grant Delpit is the pick at 24. Is anyone here saying "Crap, Warford is starting for another 16+ games, that's going to be a problem..."

1) There is a lot of ground to cover between calling Warford a problem and saying he’s just not that good any more. You can get by with a guard who just isn’t that good anymore. It’s much harder to get by with a guard that is a problem.  
 

2) Nobody was calling Warford a problem, even after the Ruiz pick, so I’m not sure what point you were trying to make here.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Dome

[Dome]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

But it's not exactly "burn him at the stake" either.

Nobody wants to burn him at the stake now though. Most people just don’t think he’s that good anymore.

I think you’re really overstating how down Saints fans actually are on Warford now, after the cut.

What’s the worst you’ve seen said about him on here, even with all the mental gymnastics you’re seeing after his release?

The absolute worst thing you’ve seen... lay it on me.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Dome

[Dome]

On 5/8/2020 at 1:47 PM, Spartica4Real said:

We had one extra starting caliber OL after drafting Ruiz, so instead of using Ruiz as depth I guess they decided to save money. The starting OL will probably be Armstead/Peat/McCoy/Ruiz/Ramcyzk.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 2:24 PM, Canadian Saint said:

Not Dome obviously but he's not bad. He's had a few issues. His conditioning fell off when the playoffs came about the past two seasons. He's also not the best in space.

Any team who needs an above average RG, he can definitely do the job.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 2:32 PM, Canadian Saint said:

Definitely wouldn't be my first choice. Our beat writer said he was one of the slowest guards in the NFL.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 3:44 PM, Dome said:

Yeah. And even looks great at times...

I think he has senioritis and maybe doesn’t want to put in the hard work any more, and sometimes you can tell he’s on autopilot 

 

getting cut could change his outlook and spark a fire 

 

At worst you’re getting a quality veteran in the twilight of his career, potentially getting a motivated vet capable of being one of the best in the league 

 

On 5/8/2020 at 5:16 PM, Dome said:

I remember when KC moved on from Alex Smith after back to back pro bowls... man they really regretted that, letting unproven Pat Mahomes take over 

(Yes I know that Ruiz isn’t Mahomes... but referring to Larry Warford as a “Pro Bowl Player” is like calling Taysom Hill a QB.. it’s only technically true)

 

On 5/8/2020 at 7:16 PM, MookieMonstah said:

Warford wasn't good last year? Him and Peat were both average. Warford got abused against Minnesota, he's a huge reason they lost that game.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 7:18 PM, JMG5 said:

Abused is an understatement.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 7:56 PM, sammymvpknight said:

They only extended Peat because they knew that they couldn’t lose both OGs this year without interfering with continuity. The Saints had every intention of either trading or cutting Warford this offseason. He came into the season out of shape and Sean Payton simply doesn’t put up with that. McCoy was a stud last year but struggled at times with the calls and line adjustments. That’s Ruiz’s forte. McCoy will move to RG, Ruiz will start at center, and the Saints will continue to have a top OL. We’ve seen this story over and over again. The Saints know what they are doing on the OL. 

 

On 5/8/2020 at 8:48 PM, Raves said:

I honestly would've probably preferred Warford over Peat in the regular season, but Peat can move out to LT when needed, Warford can't, and Warford has had conditioning issues since he's been with the Saints...

 

On 5/8/2020 at 8:49 PM, tyler735 said:

I'd imagine the versatility with Peat played a role as he frequently fills in for Terron Armstead at LT when he gets injured each every year. It seems they are trying to get more athletic on the OL as well, which suits Peat more than Warford.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 10:39 PM, MookieMonstah said:

I mean it’s telling that the Saints couldn’t even get a conditional 7th for the guy.

 

On 5/9/2020 at 4:13 AM, sammymvpknight said:

Last year? Warford. He’s been more healthy than Peat. But after hearing that Warford struggled with conditioning...and struggled a bunch last year...I understand them keeping Peat. Peat is still young and has a higher upside. 

I’m probably one of the few people who actually believe that Taysom Hill will be the starter next year (as in 2021). And if he is, Peat actually makes a bunch of sense. He’s very good as a power run blocker and he’s mobile. Constantly out of shape and slow Warford can’t be that guy in RPO. If that makes sense. 

 

On 5/9/2020 at 6:10 AM, Dome said:

There are 16 guards making over $8m per year. I don’t think a team would scoff at paying a quality guard $10m 

Sean Payton said Warford would compete for his job. Several Saints twitter writers speculated that Ruiz would attempt to beat out McCoy but could fight for Warford’s job if he didn’t beat out McCoy, some guys speculated Nick Easton ($5.3m backup) would be cut to save a few million and Ruiz would become the reserve for one year instead while other speculated McCoy would take Warfords job and Ruiz/Easton would compete for the starting center spot, this one was the winner.

There was definitely not a guarantee Warford was going to be cut. 

 

On 5/9/2020 at 8:43 AM, Canadian Saint said:

Nah they are going to shift McCoy to guard and play Ruiz at C. McCoy struggled to make some calls at the line and the Saints think McCoy will be a better guard.

 

On 5/9/2020 at 9:27 AM, Dome said:

I think McCoy is moving to Guard and Easton/Ruiz will duke it out for the C spot and the loser plays backup to all 3 IOL spots 

 

On 5/9/2020 at 12:03 PM, Dome said:

“I figured your reply would lack common sense”

*fails to grasp basic logic*

Yep, not to mention the countless other times we’ve seen a player everyone knew was getting cut get traded for a late round pick instead. 

We still have backups. Nick Easton looked serviceable and started games for us last year... he will be the primary reserve to all 3 interior spots

you can say “better hope for no injuries” but the Saints still have one of the best lines in the league.

So the Saints better keep their fingers crossed just as much as anyone else I guess?

 

On 5/9/2020 at 6:01 PM, Dome said:

I think, more than the athleticism between Ruiz and McCoy, the deciding factor is how impressed the Saints were with Ruiz making calls at the line

 as impressive of a rookie season as McCoy had, that’s where he struggled the most 

 

that’s the rumors among some of the beat writers anyways 

 

On 5/9/2020 at 6:05 PM, Dome said:

He’s better than quite a few starters out there, but he’s not worth the amount he was owed on his contract

So he’s not worth trading for because you want him on a new deal... so you don’t trade for him and hope to sign him instead.

Just because someone wants him doesn’t mean he’s still good.

 

Whether it happens now or just before TC doesn’t really matter, he’ll be on a roster sooner than later 

 

9 hours ago, Dome said:

IMO, some folks are very much overstating the cap ramifications for the Saints... Mickey is just as good as any GM at wringing every last cent out of a salary cap that he can. The money was an aspect of his release but his major decline in play is what made the money an issue. 

If Warford was better than “meh” as a starter, he’d be on the Saints and the Saints wouldn’t have taken an IOL in the 1st. Nick Easton or Kiko (both reserves making several million) could’ve been cut earlier in the year. Taysom could’ve played on his $4.5m tender rather than be given an extension. The money was there and would’ve been paid if Warford was good.

 

 

If you’re looking at this as “the Saints couldn’t afford him” it’s incorrect and probably screwing with your assessment of Warford as a player.

If you’re looking at this as “the Saints are more confident in a rookie” your expectations for Warford are probably going to be closer to reality.

It all depends if this lights a fire under his ***, or makes him realize he really just doesn’t care any more.

 

9 hours ago, Dome said:

bingo..

don’t believe everything you see on Twitter 

 

this was only a “cap issue” because they already had a replacement lined up 

And they only got his replacement lined up  because they don’t think he’s good 
 

If he was still good, his replacement doesn’t get drafted and they pay him his salary. Saints don’t mind paying guys, they’ve proven that plenty.

 

Oh I’ve seen this MO before..  

 

8 hours ago, Dome said:

who has said he’s worthless though?

is anyone arguing that?

 

 

7 hours ago, Dome said:

I was just making sure I didn’t miss someone making a claim like that... Warford being worthless, that is.

 

I excluded the last part of your post because I thought it was a typo and didn’t want to ninja reply before you edited... If it wasn’t a typo then I just disagree I guess 

 

what determines a players worth, if not the other 31 coaches with assets they could trade away to squire him ? 

31 coaches decided their 7th round pick was more valuable than guaranteed rights to Warford, so I’d say he’s worth less than a 7th to 31 coaches

thats a pretty good gauge on his value IMO.... if nobody is willing to give up a 7th, he’s decidedly not worth a 7th.

 

7 hours ago, Dome said:

If a team gives money to a player, or gives draft picks up for a player, that is what the player was worth to them. Whether or not that translates on the field doesn’t change how they were valued by the team when they were acquired.

Warford on a reasonable salary wasn’t valued high enough to be worth a 7th round pick, teams didn’t think he was worth it so they didn’t make the deal.

It’s not the end all be all, no, but it’s an aspect.

I don’t think folks throwing out names like Revis, Gurley or Manning gets us anywhere in the discussion either because Warford is nothing like those guys at all. Those were superstars, Warford has never been a superstar. It’s apples to oranges. 

Like you said, no situations are 100% comparable, but some are much more comparable than others. At this point in his career Warford is more of an Andy Dalton than Peyton Manning.

 

7 hours ago, Dome said:

If 31 teams were aware that a player was available and all 31 teams declined to offer up a 7th round pick then I would say yes, that player was worth less than a 7th rounder.

 

6 hours ago, Dome said:

And Warford is worth to 31 teams what they were willing to give up for him.

”That’s what he (Warford) was worth to _________ (insert any team that didn’t trade for him)” 

alright @ET80 I did the hard work.

i think these are all the posts specifically talking about Warford by Saints posters that were made in this thread, hopefully I didn’t miss any.

It was established early and often by myself and several others that Warford COULD be a great player he gets motivated and in shape, but he simply isn’t. Everything else is referring to what he is, or was most recently.

so what specifically are you seeing that looks like mental gymnastics? where are people unfairly trying to get down on Warford?

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Dome said:

I hate Peat.

The bubble butt is worth the $11M alone.