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Mahomes will surpass Brady as the Goat. True or False?

Will Mahomes pass Brady as the GOAT?  

108 members have voted

  1. 1. Will Mahomes be the Goat?

    • No Mahomes will never surpass Tom Brady
    • Yes one day Patrick Mahomes will be considered the Goat


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2 hours ago, lancerman said:

Dan Marino literally destroyed all the stats in his era lol. He broke 60000 yards. The only other QB’s to do so are Brees, Farve, Manning and Brady. The oldest of which debuted a decade after him. And all of them played most of their career post 2000. Same with TD’s. Exact same people are in front of. In both instances he’s the only guy that didn’t play any time in the 2000’s that is on the list sans Tarkenton who is 10 for TD’s and Elway who is 9 for yards. 
 

Aka in his era Marino blew everyone away in statistics to the point where he rewrote the record book more than any QB. 
 

He has 2 top 10 all time seasons in TD’s. Farve in 96 (tied for 14th) and Warner in 99 (tied for 10th) are only other QB’s in the top 20 that did it before 2000. He has a top season in yards in the 80’s. The whole top 25 except for Marino are people who did it in the last 13 seasons lol. 
 

Let me make this very clear. If it had nothing to do with rings, Marino would have been the GOAT quite easily. 
 

He never was considered the GOAT because of lack of rings. Barry Sanders is often in the GOAT discussion despite no rings and Payton and Brown who are his peers in that discussion have 1 a piece 

So sorry, your statement is pure ignorance 

Oh, Marino has definitely been in the discussion for GOAT, partly because of those statistics you have mentioned.  

Brees and Rodgers have one ring a piece, and they're just as much in the discussion.  

Terry Bradshaw said that he doesn't think Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time just because he won 6 Super Bowls. And, that's coming from one of two QBs that had 4 Super Bowls for the last 50 years.  

You generally can't really determine who the greatest QB of all time is.  But, you can form a group of QBs who are considered all time elites.  And, Marino will always be there, despite never winning a Super Bowl. 

 

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There's just too many variables to answer a question like this. Mahomes is unquestionably more physically talented, I don't think that's arguable, but he's far from the first guy more talented than Brady to come into the league. There's so much luck required to warranting that kind of moniker. It takes being spectacularly great AND being incredibly fortunate. I have no doubt he's capable of the former, but so much can happen to derail the latter. Brady was lucky to have Belichick virtually his entire career. Reid right now is like 10 years older than Belichick was when he and Brady started their run. Barry Sanders was lucky to only miss 7 games in his 10 year career, Pat has already lost two to injury. Jerry Rice was fortunate to have a 20 year career, we don't even know if Mahomes will last 10. Honestly we don't even know if the NFL will exist in 17 years. Tony Gonzalez had almost an entire career of teams willing and able to focus the offense around his skills. Mahomes could have trash around him or a run based scheme in 8 years.

There's just so much we don't know, that goes beyond simply whether or not Mahomes is physically and mentally capable of being that good, that has a huge impact on this question.

One thing I will predict, I do see the Rodgers/Mahomes comparison thrown around a lot, and that is one I will disagree with. I think there are more signs of extended success currently in and around KC than there were in Green Bay at that time. I think from a personality perspective there is a clear leadership difference between the two. I think what Reid and the FO have done with this roster prior to Mahomes is noteworthy as well. We were like 53-27 with Alex Smith. Mahomes carries this team further, but we were already a competitive mainstay in the AFC prior to Mahomes. Green Bay had some bumpy years prior to Rodgers true breakout with Sherman getting fired and just some inconsistent performances in that like '05 to '09 window. Our worst result with Reid was 9-7. I think there is much to like with how Veach has built the team, with a good mix of draft success, low value but high impact free agents, and big names. This may just come with the benefit of hindsight, but I think there's more reason to have faith in the leadership structure of Mahomes/Reid/Veach than there was in Rodgers/McCarthy/Thompson. That doesn't mean he'll have Brady level success, but I'd be shocked with Reid here if we have 4 seasons with under 10 wins with Mahomes at QB, like McCarthy with Rodgers.

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22 minutes ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Like Mahomes, Brady has been set with an elite arsenal of athletes on his offense throughout his 20 year career.  

Ummm really? Outside of Randy Moss and Gronk, Brady has had very little in terms of elite athletes. And I'd argue that Gronk isn't even an elite athlete...he's just a beast of a football player.

Brady has never had the kind of weapons that Mahomes had last year. I wonder if Mahomes will be able to be productive when the weapons in his arsenal are average or below average. I don't think he'll fall apart, but I also don't think he can carry a squad of bums deep into the playoffs either. Once they pay Mahomes, the rest of that team is going to suffer. The surrounding talent will dwindle and I just severely question if they'll be able to match the success of the Patriots.

Look at Peyton Manning, arguably the 2nd greatest QB of all-time. He hasn't won nearly the same amount as Brady has. It's not a sleight at Mahomes. It's simply stating that it's damn near impossible to have the success Brady has had, even if Mahomes is the best QB in the league for the next 15 years.

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11 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Ummm really? Outside of Randy Moss and Gronk, Brady has had very little in terms of elite athletes. And I'd argue that Gronk isn't even an elite athlete...he's just a beast of a football player.

Brady has never had the kind of weapons that Mahomes had last year. I wonder if Mahomes will be able to be productive when the weapons in his arsenal are average or below average. I don't think he'll fall apart, but I also don't think he can carry a squad of bums deep into the playoffs either. Once they pay Mahomes, the rest of that team is going to suffer. The surrounding talent will dwindle and I just severely question if they'll be able to match the success of the Patriots.

Look at Peyton Manning, arguably the 2nd greatest QB of all-time. He hasn't won nearly the same amount as Brady has. It's not a sleight at Mahomes. It's simply stating that it's damn near impossible to have the success Brady has had, even if Mahomes is the best QB in the league for the next 15 years.

It also helps to have a trash division for 2 decades and a free trip to the divisional round almost every year.  

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25 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Arsenal?

Agreed. With the exception of one 16-0 season with Randy Moss, Brady has had **** WR to work with. That said, there was always a very good OL, a stable of RB who could catch and an elite underneath threat--Gronk, Welker, Edelman, Brown, etc.

J

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6 minutes ago, Zalixar said:

It also helps to have a trash division for 2 decades and a free trip to the divisional round almost every year.  

 I think this gets overblown. Outside of 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2018 there was always a competitive .500+ team. New England was always just so good that they made it look easy.

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15 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

Agreed. With the exception of one 16-0 season with Randy Moss, Brady has had **** WR to work with. That said, there was always a very good OL, a stable of RB who could catch and an elite underneath threat--Gronk, Welker, Edelman, Brown, etc.

J

Well if there’s one thing we can be sure of it’s that his weapons were definitely not elite athletes lmao

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Way too early to be having this conversation.

I will say, though, is that the way QBs are commonly judged on team performance is one of the stupidest things in sports.

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23 minutes ago, Soggust said:

Way too early to be having this conversation.

I will say, though, is that the way QBs are commonly judged on team performance is one of the stupidest things in sports.

Disagree. We have seen what bad QB play does to otherwise great surrounding casts. 

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2 hours ago, onejayhawk said:

Then you are changing the definition. You can make that argument, but you also have to deal with the fact that you can win a Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo or Trent Dilfer. 

I do not accept multiple championships as a requirement because it is too dependent on things outside the player's control. Twenty five years ago, there were arguments claiming Elway wasn't great because he had no ring. He wins two at the end of his career and is enshrined as the Greatest ever. Silly. 

J

That’s fine that you dont, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a requirement for QBs to be considered the greatest of all time 

on a side note, why do you put a J at the end of all your posts? Never seen anyone signing their posts on a forum before

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I will say no at the moment. I am mad at Brady so it isn't me being a homer, but we often crown people early in their career and their great accomplishments never come to fruition. Seahawks dynasty, Aaron Rodgers come to mind instantly. 

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14 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

That’s fine that you dont, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a requirement for QBs to be considered the greatest of all time 

on a side note, why do you put a J at the end of all your posts? Never seen anyone signing their posts on a forum before

Make your mind. If it's fine that I don't, then it's not a requirement. 

The J is my initial, but it was also my sig from before there were sigs. Now it's more habit than anything.

J

 

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2 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Oh, Marino has definitely been in the discussion for GOAT, partly because of those statistics you have mentioned.  

Brees and Rodgers have one ring a piece, and they're just as much in the discussion.  

Terry Bradshaw said that he doesn't think Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time just because he won 6 Super Bowls. And, that's coming from one of two QBs that had 4 Super Bowls for the last 50 years.  

You generally can't really determine who the greatest QB of all time is.  But, you can form a group of QBs who are considered all time elites.  And, Marino will always be there, despite never winning a Super Bowl. 

 

Brees is not in the discussion for GOAT from me, not even close. He's been hoarding stats for years over wins and that is getting exposed in the playoffs year after year.

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1 hour ago, Troy Brown said:

Disagree. We have seen what bad QB play does to otherwise great surrounding casts. 

And we've seen good QB play sabotaged by poor surrounding casts. The point is that team success either way is dictated by the entire team, not exclusively QB.

This isn't basketball where a star is ~20% of the team. There are 21 other starters not including special teams that are also reasons for not winning championships.

And I'm not defending Mahomes > Brady here. Mahomes isn't even in the discussion, at the moment. But if, 100% hypothetically, he put up say - 4 more 50TD seasons, 5 more MVPs, 6 more 5000 Yd Seasons, Got to the playoffs consistently only to lose 48-45 type games with good play and never win another super bowl.....I think he has a good argument. Obviously, that's ridiculous to expect, but just making the point that there is more to QB play than team success, imo. 

1 hour ago, rocky_rams said:

That’s fine that you dont, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a requirement for QBs to be considered the greatest of all time 

on a side note, why do you put a J at the end of all your posts? Never seen anyone signing their posts on a forum before

Except it's not a fact, because GOAT is, in itself, inherently an opinion.

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5 hours ago, Wyld Stallyns said:

I voted no on the poll because Peyton Manning is the G.O.A.T. No Brady 

Dont @ me 

Only QB with 2 SB wins with 2 different teams.

 

/thread

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