Is the offensive line really that much of a concern?

[naptownskinsfan]

This is a good read from Hogs Haven looking at the starters and depth players.  Here is the quote from the end of the article to sum it all up, but I highly suggest reading it to see what I consider a reasonable look at our players.  

Quote

Between free agents, recent draft picks, and depth groomed over the past couple of years, I actually think the Redskins are in a very solid position at offensive line going into the 2020 season. Would I object to signing Jason Peters to a one year deal? Maybe, but primarily because it would mean we could be putting young talent at risk by placing them on the practice squad.

Currently, if the starting 5 are Lucas, Martin, Roullier, Scherff, and Moses, with the expanded roster in 2020, that leaves perhaps 5 more spaces for OL depth. Let’s say those spots are occupied by Charles, Christian, Parris, Pierschbacher, and Ismael. That leaves off Schweitzer, who I think could make the team. Add Peters to that mix and who else are we demoting?

Much has recently been made of the Redskins’ youth, and the reality is that the anticipated transformation of that youth from potential into performance is hardly more evident than on the Redskins’ offensive line. Prepare to enjoy the fruits of that patience in 2020.

Bonus read on Morgan Moses and the chances that he could be replaced at RT.  Gotta get past the Charles portion to look at a comparison between Moses and Lucas. 

 

[turtle28]

I’ve believed their OL is fine for a while. Sure they could use an upgrade at LT to get an over the hill vet who could fill in as a stop gap for a year but I think at the point it’s an overreaction to say that it’s definitely needed.

As for Moses, he could be replaced but, the other OTs have to actually beat him out. I just had this discussion on Twitter amongst a handful of people and until someone beats Moses out, he’s going to be our starter. I hope Lucas, Christian and Charles can get the job done to where we don’t need to sign a vet FA LT in August and we can cut Moses, but at this point we just don’t know.

[Skins212689]

Yes the OLine is a CONCERN.

[Jeezy Fanatic]

Ereck Flowers isn’t walking through that door

[e16bball]

It’s that much of a concern. 

It wasn’t a good OL last season, and they lost two guys who played pretty decent football. They’re hoping to replace that duo with a real who’s who of options — which I mean literally, in that even serious NFL fans will be asking who the hell these guys are. No need to belabor this point by going through all of them again; the real keys are that there’s no reason but sheer blind faith to believe any of these guys can actually play LT in the NFL, and that the guy we’d like to see win the LG job is actually not a good fit for the apparent new blocking scheme. 

On the other side of a reliably decent/solid center in Roullier, you’ve got two guys whose names (and salaries) are a lot bigger than their production in recent years. Can Scherff get back to being a star? Hopefully, but he sure didn’t play like one last year. And he’s missed 13 games over the last two seasons. As for Moses, at least he stays on the field — but he’s constantly banged up and he’s been a walking penalty for years. Is he somehow still our 2nd most reliable OL, given Scherff’s injury woes? Probably so, and that sorta sums it up, doesn’t it?

Hopefully everything falls into place. They find a starter at LT, one of the Wes’s emerges at LG, Scherff and Moses have bounce back years, everybody stays healthy, and they keep Haskins uptight and the ground game moving. All of that is possible. I would love it if all that came true. 

But to say it’s not a big concern? That’s just rosy offseason glasses to me. There are two big glaring concerns on the left side, and I don’t see how we could feel super comfortable with Moses or even Scherff. Hell, even Roullier has trouble with power, and he’s about to face a Cox/Hargrave duo in week 1, plus a bunch of other big studs like Dexter Lawrence and Gerald McCoy in the division. 

Everything could go well. But there are loads of realistic scenarios where it could go quite badly. Hard to see how that’s not a major concern.

[turtle28]

All I can say I'm sure Panthers fans felt the same way after they lost Jordan Gross, or when Ryan Khalil retired or when they had to start an UDFA player like Andrew Norwell. Or when they had to start a previous OG/RT in Darryl Williams at LT.

Edited May 11, 2020 by turtle28

[lavar703]

It’s weird to see all of HogsHavens opinion pieces being linked here. Anyway, yes the idea that the OL isn’t a concern is crazy. We lost our entire starting left side and our overpriced RG can never stay healthy. Moses is far and away the best OT we have on the roster but he’s always banged up. The fact we’re putting Haskins behind this line considering all the money we had to spend it embarrassing. They could’ve signed Conklin and re-signed Flowers and we’d be in way better shape but I digress. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

It’s weird to see all of HogsHavens opinion pieces being linked here. Anyway, yes the idea that the OL isn’t a concern is crazy. We lost our entire starting left side and our overpriced RG can never stay healthy. Moses is far and away the best OT we have on the roster but he’s always banged up. The fact we’re putting Haskins behind this line considering all the money we had to spend it embarrassing. They could’ve signed Conklin and re-signed Flowers and we’d be in way better shape but I digress. 

Isn't every article at least partly opinion?

It's just a piece we can use as a discussion. I've never understood why people overreact to that. 

Let's go back to 10 months ago today. We had major Questions at LT then too, and I’d say more questions.

We had Flowers who they were trying out at LT bc Williams said he wasn't going to play unless we fired the training staff and he got a new contract. We didn't know if Flowers was going to work out at guard yet and we didn't have any other options at LG except Martin who we had just drafted in round 4.

We didn't have Penn last summer. We had way more questions on our left side last summer than we do now.

At least now we have seen Christian play 3 games last year and not totally crap the bed. We have seen Martin play in place of Scherff and at worst be average and I’d say he played well. We signed a vet guard in Scherwitzer who may not be anything  special but he's been ok as a spot starter in the league and as depth.

We signed Lucas, a veteran OT who started half the season for the Bears last year and didn't give up a sack. We just drafted another OT prospect too in Charles who is talented but needs some development. We still have Ross P as a backup C/G and we drafted Ishmael to develop as a C/G too.

I think we have less questions now than we did last year.

Edited May 11, 2020 by turtle28

[Doc Draper]

Our weakest position group by far. Journeymen, injures players returning, youngsters, = lots of question marks. It’s a bottom 5 OL at this point. Let’s see how it turns out. But if I’m the QB, I’m making sure my life insurance and disability insurance is paid up 

[naptownskinsfan]

On 5/11/2020 at 10:20 AM, lavar703 said:

It’s weird to see all of HogsHavens opinion pieces being linked here. Anyway, yes the idea that the OL isn’t a concern is crazy. We lost our entire starting left side and our overpriced RG can never stay healthy. Moses is far and away the best OT we have on the roster but he’s always banged up. The fact we’re putting Haskins behind this line considering all the money we had to spend it embarrassing. They could’ve signed Conklin and re-signed Flowers and we’d be in way better shape but I digress. 

If you would rather me focus on some other sources, by all means, let me know.  It's rare to see someone dive this deep into a position like offensive line though.  Most people don't consider the trenches worthy of working on an article this length.  From someone coming from a football family, I actually like a lot of the stuff that they put out.  This and the Scott Turner piece were pretty darn informative.  

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

If you would rather me focus on some other sources, by all means, let me know.  It's rare to see someone dive this deep into a position like offensive line though.  Most people don't consider the trenches worthy of working on an article this length.  From someone coming from a football family, I actually like a lot of the stuff that they put out.  This and the Scott Turner piece were pretty darn informative.  

Nope, didn’t mean it to sound bad at all honestly. They have some good stuff. Bill is a heck of a writer. 
 

And the writer of this article “KyleSmith4GM” has come a long way since the dude who would cuss people out in the comments section of articles lol

Edited May 12, 2020 by lavar703

[offbyone]

I think we have a passing grade line cobbled together this year.  The big concern I have with our oline, isn't this year, but next year.  We have no LG.  No center.  Right now LT is an unknown entity.  RG is a competition between guys who have never held a starting job.  Our RT is under contract, but has been below average for multiple years running.

 

[turtle28]

32 minutes ago, offbyone said:

I think we have a passing grade line cobbled together this year.  The big concern I have with our oline, isn't this year, but next year.  We have no LG.  No center.  Right now LT is an unknown entity.  RG is a competition between guys who have never held a starting job.  Our RT is under contract, but has been below average for multiple years running.

 

We have guys at LG and at Center. And yes, they have started. We’ve drafted 3 other players for the interior OL in the last two drafts and two OTs in the last 3 drafts. 

I don't and never will get the point of view that in order for a player to be able to play a position that they will have had to ”held down a starting job before.” If you take that point of view then you're against rookies starting and players who were drafted maybe a year or two before but were backups behind a veteran that was already in place. 

[offbyone]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

We have guys at LG and at Center. And yes, they have started. We’ve drafted 3 other players for the interior OL in the last two drafts and two OTs in the last 3 drafts. 

I don't and never will get the point of view that in order for a player to be able to play a position that they will have had to ”held down a starting job before.” If you take that point of view then you're against rookies starting and players who were drafted maybe a year or two before but were backups behind a veteran that was already in place. 

I don't think we need to have players be a starter before.  You just can't assume they are going to actually be good until they show it.  You can't project us to have a good oline until they show it.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, offbyone said:

I don't think we need to have players be a starter before.  You just can't assume they are going to actually be good until they show it.  You can't project us to have a good oline until they show it.

Yeah, and they can’t show they can play until they play in games. Which, by the way is something that Roullier has done for two years now, Lucas did in 8 games last year and Christian and Martin did in 3 games last year.

I totally understand wanting established starters at every position, but it's not always possible and in some cases an established vet who's pushing 30 or is over 30 may not be as good a young player, especially for the ZBS which relies on athleticism in order for it to be effective.