Is the offensive line really that much of a concern?

[offbyone]

4 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

15 out of 32 starters at a position in the NFL are 1st round picks selected by the team (more if you count guys through FA/trade). Agree to disagree.

Even if we only counted this, it is a hugely statistically significant number that demonstrates how high NFL teams value the LT position.  I think you can add to the evidence, the picks which end up bombing out or turning into left guards instead of left tackles.  It all points to how much teams value LT.

Frankly, I find it almost astounding that such a concentration of high picks is put on this position considering it is 1 spot of a 5 man unit.  Yet it seems constantly held in regard well above the rest of the line.  To me this is not sensible.  Pass rushers come in all flavors and invade inside, outside, over the top and through the middle.  Run blocking schemes and plays don't typically put higher responsibilities on LT for run blocking.  So it doesn't make sense to me.  I also wonder why the center position is so constantly looked over and deprioritized when it is the linchpin of the line. 

The nfl has spoken clearly on this point though.  I don't agree with the point of view.  It isn't that I think the LT position isn't important, I just don't think the weight of importance should nearly outweigh the other 4 positions combined which is what it often feels like.  I still would circle back to my point that the entire left side of our line is likely below average and this will put extra stress on the left tackle position.  Flaws will be exaggerated.

[RSkinGM]

It's called The Blind Side" for a reason .

[offbyone]

21 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

It's called The Blind Side" for a reason .

I guess Miami doesn't have to worry so much about it then.  Maybe we should teach Haskins to throw left handed.

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

It's called The Blind Side" for a reason .

Not if it's a left handed QB like Steve Young, Mark Brunell, Mike Vick or Tua. Of course that doesn't apply here bc we have right-handed QBs and so were focused on the left side being the blind side.

[turtle28]

5 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

To you first paragraph, I was merely showing that some of those LTs were acquired in other ways, which is important because my main point is about resource management and allocation. 

Stating that a bunch of the LTs in the league have been first round picks doesn't prove that the position isn't overrated.  I'm stating that team's overrate the position, them spending first round picks on them could support that argument.  The reality is my opinion that the position is overrated is just that, my opinion.  Its extremely hard to prove from either side of the argument because its a position with no stats.  

The part of my post that is indisputable is that we've spent 3rd and 4th round picks on LTs already, and it would be the best outcome for this organization for one of those guys to become the long term starter at LT.  That really isn't debatable.  I also believe that young players need reps, and bringing in an aging vet to hold the position down for the year really does nothing to help this team in the long run.  I also do not agree with the notion that Haskins needs that aging vet, because it would be better for him in the long run if one of these young guys becomes his long term protection.  The likely outcome if we sign someone like Peters is that he plays a year, we learn nothing about Christian and Charles, and we end up spending a first or second round pick to take the starting role next year.  The other side of that could be, we play Charles, he figures it out and become the long term option, and we can use that first or second rounder on another position.  Again, its just maximizing our resources.  

Exactly!! 

We need a long term answer at LT, and it would be better for the team long term if we find out this year whether Charles or Christian can be that long term answer. If they aren't, then we can sign a vet. IMO no one ow knocking down Donald Penn’s door, and they don't seem to be knocking down Peters, Beachum or Cordy Glenn’s doors either. I don't see all 4 of these guys being signed before the season starts, if we need to we can sign whoever isn't signed after we have seen Charles, Christian and Lucas play.

[naptownskinsfan]

13 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

To you first paragraph, I was merely showing that some of those LTs were acquired in other ways, which is important because my main point is about resource management and allocation. 

Stating that a bunch of the LTs in the league have been first round picks doesn't prove that the position isn't overrated.  I'm stating that team's overrate the position, them spending first round picks on them could support that argument.  The reality is my opinion that the position is overrated is just that, my opinion.  Its extremely hard to prove from either side of the argument because its a position with no stats.  

The part of my post that is indisputable is that we've spent 3rd and 4th round picks on LTs already, and it would be the best outcome for this organization for one of those guys to become the long term starter at LT.  That really isn't debatable.  I also believe that young players need reps, and bringing in an aging vet to hold the position down for the year really does nothing to help this team in the long run.  I also do not agree with the notion that Haskins needs that aging vet, because it would be better for him in the long run if one of these young guys becomes his long term protection.  The likely outcome if we sign someone like Peters is that he plays a year, we learn nothing about Christian and Charles, and we end up spending a first or second round pick to take the starting role next year.  The other side of that could be, we play Charles, he figures it out and become the long term option, and we can use that first or second rounder on another position.  Again, its just maximizing our resources.  

In the same way that I think LT is overrated, I feel center is underrated, and that is coming from an offensive line background with my family in coaching.  The center is responsible for calling out assignments and helping to make changes at the LOS.  They also have to be in sync with the QB and ready to snap the ball while doing the same thing.  

Changing back to zone-blocking, it is less important to win individual battles.  It is more about athleticism and "passing off" to the next guy behind you.  This is the reason why, when you teach it well like John Matsko, Alex Gibbs or Chris Foerster, you can constantly generate a factory of offensive linemen.  

If you are interested, read this link for more information- http://static.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html

It would be nice to spend those resources on a stellar left tackle, but with the current roster and needing talent across the board, we need to prioritize differently as opposed to if we are a team that is winning.  We aren't building this team in one off-season.  It's probably taking two, and maybe even three.  

[e16bball]

I guess my point with the fact that potential starting LTs typically are all gone by the mid-2nd round is that we’re sitting here talking about how we want to see what we’ve got in this 3rd rounder and 4th rounder — when history is telling us pretty clearly what we have, which is realistically likely a vague hope that one of them can be a solid RT for a few years. I don’t know that it matters if the position should be valued so highly, because it is valued that highly and as such it’s virtually impossible to find guys slipping through the cracks at the position. Which is what we’re pinning our hopes to at this point.

2013 was a magical year. Terron Armstead in the 3rd, David Bakhtiari in the 4th. Lightning struck twice in one year. Two legit LTs in the 3rd and 4th rounds. The previous 5 years, how many starting LTs came out of those rounds? One, Jared Veldheer. 5 years, 10 rounds, over 300 picks, at least 20 OTs selected, and one was a passable starting NFL LT. What about since that magical 2013 draft? In the next 6 drafts, it appears to me that there have been zero starting LTs drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

All told, by my count, I see a total 3 starting LTs drafted in the 3rd/4th rounds over the last 12 years. Probably almost 800 picks, and 3 of them became starting LTs. Double check me, maybe I’m missing someone. 

The point is, Christian and Charles are longshots. If either them hits and becomes a legit starting LT, they’ll be bucking a pretty strong decade-long trend. Risking compromising our opportunity to evaluate Haskins — for the sake of a chance to evaluate some third tier OT prospects — is a roster choice I just don’t understand.

If their plan is to wait until they actually lay eyes on these guys and determine they’re not going to be up to snuff by Week One, I guess I’m okay with that. But that’s running a pretty big risk that Peters and Beachum, at the very least, won’t still be out there for the taking as they are right now. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by e16bball

[e16bball]

Keim with wrote an article yesterday discussing how the Redskins plan to replace Trent Williams. He suggests — well, actually, he flat out states — that Geron Christian is the first man up. 

Interestingly, he also references Saahdiq Charles, but suggests that the Redskins are planning to try him at guard as well. No mention whatsoever of Cornelius Lucas.

He discusses Jason Peters specifically, says they could have signed him but didn’t because “they’d still need another tackle after the season.” I don’t really understand what that means, particularly because they gave out about 8 functionally one-year deals in FA, but that’s the rationale we’re getting on that. Seems to indicate they’ll come back and consider a vet if Christian isn’t up to snuff.

Keim’s been pretty plugged in this offseason, so I thought it was some pretty meaningful insight into how the team views the position. 

[offbyone]

3 hours ago, e16bball said:

Keim with wrote an article yesterday discussing how the Redskins plan to replace Trent Williams. He suggests — well, actually, he flat out states — that Geron Christian is the first man up. 

That would be a big surprise and a great one.  I thought if anything Christian might emerge as the RT starter.  Christian has to prove himself this year.  I never thought he was terrible when he subbed in.  Maybe we need a bigger sample size before we judge him.

[naptownskinsfan]

5 hours ago, e16bball said:

Keim with wrote an article yesterday discussing how the Redskins plan to replace Trent Williams. He suggests — well, actually, he flat out states — that Geron Christian is the first man up. 

Interestingly, he also references Saahdiq Charles, but suggests that the Redskins are planning to try him at guard as well. No mention whatsoever of Cornelius Lucas.

He discusses Jason Peters specifically, says they could have signed him but didn’t because “they’d still need another tackle after the season.” I don’t really understand what that means, particularly because they gave out about 8 functionally one-year deals in FA, but that’s the rationale we’re getting on that. Seems to indicate they’ll come back and consider a vet if Christian isn’t up to snuff.

Keim’s been pretty plugged in this offseason, so I thought it was some pretty meaningful insight into how the team views the position. 

Thanks for posting.  

Aside from the lack of mentioning Lucas, this has been what I believed the team was thinking as they've gone through this off-season.  

I still wouldn't mind seeing someone else brought in, but it's a year stopgap and should only be used if Covid-19 affects too much more of the off-season calendar or no one separates themselves during training camp.  

[turtle28]

On 5/22/2020 at 9:59 AM, e16bball said:

Keim with wrote an article yesterday discussing how the Redskins plan to replace Trent Williams. He suggests — well, actually, he flat out states — that Geron Christian is the first man up. 

Interestingly, he also references Saahdiq Charles, but suggests that the Redskins are planning to try him at guard as well. No mention whatsoever of Cornelius Lucas.

He discusses Jason Peters specifically, says they could have signed him but didn’t because “they’d still need another tackle after the season.” I don’t really understand what that means, particularly because they gave out about 8 functionally one-year deals in FA, but that’s the rationale we’re getting on that. Seems to indicate they’ll come back and consider a vet if Christian isn’t up to snuff.

Keim’s been pretty plugged in this offseason, so I thought it was some pretty meaningful insight into how the team views the position. 

I wouldn’t be shocked if Christian wins the job. I think it’s going to be a good competition between Christian, Charles and Lucas and between those 3, one of them should be serviceable.

Edited May 29, 2020 by turtle28

[RSkinGM]

This article makes it sound like Trent could easily behere starting for us and we'd be a better unit on offense. Once again-Bruce Allen must be an imbecile. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2893835-trent-williams-was-ready-to-play-before-redskins-placed-him-on-nfi-list-in-2019

[naptownskinsfan]

14 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

This article makes it sound like Trent could easily behere starting for us and we'd be a better unit on offense. Once again-Bruce Allen must be an imbecile. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2893835-trent-williams-was-ready-to-play-before-redskins-placed-him-on-nfi-list-in-2019

At this point, I don't know who to believe anymore.  Could easily be damage control on the part of Williams with no one left to contradict him, and Redskins fans knowing that they can still blame Bruce Allen for this. 

[MikeT14]

On 5/22/2020 at 3:29 PM, naptownskinsfan said:

Thanks for posting.  

Aside from the lack of mentioning Lucas, this has been what I believed the team was thinking as they've gone through this off-season.  

We signed him to a 2 year, $3.8 million dollar contract with an easy 1 year out. I'm not surprised. He wasn't brought in to be a starter.

[turtle28]

53 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

This article makes it sound like Trent could easily behere starting for us and we'd be a better unit on offense. Once again-Bruce Allen must be an imbecile. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2893835-trent-williams-was-ready-to-play-before-redskins-placed-him-on-nfi-list-in-2019

Agreed but oh well, it’s over.