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BleedTheClock

AFC North Game Plans: BENGALS

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8 hours ago, johndeere1707 said:

I think it’s more:

Chubb=Mixon

Hunt>Bernard

Beckham=Green

Landry=Boyd

R. Higgins ? T. Higgins (has higher upside)

I agree our WR depth is better than yours and your TEs are better than ours. 

Landry and Boyd isn’t a wash, Landry is better than Boyd. 
Hooper > Sample. 

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7 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

What variables? That Chubb led the league in broken tackles and gets a yard more after contact than Mixon? That he has better breakaway speed?

The difference between Chubb and Mixon is because of Chubb and Mixon. Both good players but thus far one has been noticeably better.

Better talent around him, clearly. The Browns have had better talent at nearly every offensive position since they’ve been in the league.

For a guy who writes dissertations about why Baker is so much better than any numbers would indicate because of a laundry list of variables, you’re being willfully obtuse on this one.

If you don’t think he’s nearly as good as Chubb, that’s fine, we can agree to disagree, but trying to sum up the difference using ypc as “proof” while dismissing other context is idiotic.

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Mixon is a stud but still not as good as Chubb, IMO. Chubb is a top 3-5 RB while I'd say Mixon is top 7-8.

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8 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Mixon is a stud but still not as good as Chubb, IMO. Chubb is a top 3-5 RB while I'd say Mixon is top 7-8.

That’s fair.

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2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Better talent around him, clearly. The Browns have had better talent at nearly every offensive position since they’ve been in the league.

For a guy who writes dissertations about why Baker is so much better than any numbers would indicate because of a laundry list of variables, you’re being willfully obtuse on this one.

If you don’t think he’s nearly as good as Chubb, that’s fine, we can agree to disagree, but trying to sum up the difference using ypc as “proof” while dismissing other context is idiotic.

I read it as "the ypc is a big deal". Which it is. 1.1 is nothing to sneeze at - which is why he made the Eric Dickerson/Trent Williams comparison.

I think Chubb is clearly better. Mixon is awesome but I don't think he's close enough to be viewed as a 'wash' with Chubb. You can talk about offensive talent all you want (even though in 2018 it would closer than you think) but when I watch Chubb as a runner he is simply better, and that's dating back to his time at Georgia (pre-injury) vs. Mixon at Oklahoma.

He blows Mixon away with advanced stats too - it's just disingenuous to suggest they're a wash (not saying you're doing this, but given the comparison with the Bengals).

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Vee-Rex said:

I read it as "the ypc is a big deal". Which it is. 1.1 is nothing to sneeze at - which is why he made the Eric Dickerson/Trent Williams comparison.

it is, but there are a lot of reasons for statistical performance unrelated to ability.

cherry picking one particular stat and thinking it proves a point is idiotic and quite frankly Thomas is smart enough to know that.

Quote

I think Chubb is clearly better. Mixon is awesome but I don't think he's close enough to be viewed as a 'wash' with Chubb. You can talk about offensive talent all you want (even though in 2018 it would closer than you think) but when I watch Chubb as a runner he is simply better, and that's dating back to his time at Georgia (pre-injury) vs. Mixon at Oklahoma.

He blows Mixon away with advanced stats too - it's just disingenuous to suggest they're a wash (not saying you're doing this, but given the comparison with the Bengals).

I definitely think Chubb is a better back and has proved more thus far, but I don’t see the gap as huge.

I think Chubb is exceptional, but Mixon is also very, very good. That’s all I was ever trying to say.

Edited by LETSGOBROWNIES

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Using words like "nonsense" and "idiotic" might be a bit much there LGB.

Especially since Thomas was right.

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2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

cherry picking one particular stat and thinking it proves a point is idiot and quite frankly Thomas is smart enough to know that.

I also added broken tackles, breakaway speed and yards after contact. To make up for those things a little what does Mixon do better than Chubb?

And I think Baker was better than his stats because of coaching and no offensive line on the right side and poor protection at LT last year. Those things also would hamper Chubb, not help him.

Bengals have talent at WR. Offensive line wasn't that much of a difference last year as shown by yards before contact. They had better blocking T.E.s

Mixon has the better catch percentage. Maybe that makes up for the other things in your mind to make it debatable who is better, not for me, at least from what they have shown so far.

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39 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Mixon has the better catch percentage. Maybe that makes up for the other things in your mind to make it debatable who is better, not for me, at least from what they have shown so far.

Chubb rarely has been used as a weapon out of the back field. We will see if he can do that in Stef’s scheme, the opportunity Will be there

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31 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

Using words like "nonsense" and "idiotic" might be a bit much there LGB.

Especially since Thomas was right.

Using a single stat, which he originally did, and implying the difference is as exaggerated as TRich to Dickerson because of that stat was, and still is, idiotic and nonsensical imo.  Feel free to disagree.

 

39 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I also added broken tackles, breakaway speed and yards after contact. To make up for those things a little what does Mixon do better than Chubb?

I’m not sure why you’re asking me to defend a position I’ve never taken?  At no point did I say Mixon was better than Chubb at anything.

39 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

And I think Baker was better than his stats because of coaching and no offensive line on the right side and poor protection at LT last year. Those things also would hamper Chubb, not help him.

now do the Bengals.

39 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Bengals have talent at WR.
 

And Ross missed half the year, Green the whole year.  They do have Boyd though.

39 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Offensive line wasn't that much of a difference last year as shown by yards before contact. They had better blocking T.E.s
 

We can agree to disagree on the line.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season

39 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Mixon has the better catch percentage. Maybe that makes up for the other things in your mind to make it debatable who is better, not for me, at least from what they have shown so far.

Again, this is a straw man argument I’ve never made.

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26 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Chubb rarely has been used as a weapon out of the back field. We will see if he can do that in Stef’s scheme, the opportunity Will be there

Chubb has been pretty good at catching the ball out of the backfield when given the chance.

Another of the numerous reasons Freddie was so infuriating last year. Before Hunt, he'd put Hilliard in on third down which just told teams we were passing the ball. Instead he should have kept Chubb in there to keep defenses honest.

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I think Chubb is an average receiving back. He isn't a route runner, but he's perfectly fine catching a swing or a stick out of the backfield. But Mixon is certainly better than him at creating separation with his true route running ability. That's the only area where Mixon beats Chubb. Chubb takes a diarrhea shiz on him in every other area of the game.

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2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I think Chubb is an average receiving back. He isn't a route runner, but he's perfectly fine catching a swing or a stick out of the backfield. But Mixon is certainly better than him at creating separation with his true route running ability. That's the only area where Mixon beats Chubb. Chubb takes a diarrhea shiz on him in every other area of the game.

Yeah, Chubb isn't a route runner. He could still be a proficient receiving back if he catches the ball with a little space. His vision, acceleration, and ability to break tackles are all superb. He's not gonna do much before the catch but after the catch - look out.

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9 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Using a single stat, which he originally did, and implying the difference is as exaggerated as TRich to Dickerson because of that stat was, and still is, idiotic and nonsensical imo.  Feel free to disagree.

It's the Trump technique. Congrats.Better to just say fake news and idiot than dispute with actual evidence to support your claim that Mixon is a monster and not far off at all. If he is that close and Chubb does many things much better he has to have done something to make them that close, I just don't know what it is unless it's a better cattch percentage. Otherwise Chubb is a good bit better at some things and that creates the separation that many people see.

9 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’m not sure why you’re asking me to defend a position I’ve never taken?  At no point did I say Mixon was better than Chubb at anything.

To make up the gap. Chubb is better at breaking tackles and runs after contact and more elusive and faster. Mixon has to do something better to get them to being really close.

 

 

If I was just being a homer I would argue that we are better at many positions like WR. I'm not sure we are. Depends on how Green and OBJ come back this year. The supporting cast WR's probably favors the Bengals, maybe by a decent amount.

 

 

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