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ESPN Top 74 NBA Players of All-Time


seminoles1

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I'm not 100% sure on who all voted for this list as ESPN only says their "experts", but anyways.  Here's the list in reverse order:

*Their ranking and change from the 2016 (they ranked the top 100) list will be in parentheses
**Bolded will be a + or - 10 spot move

74: Artis Gilmore (70, -4)
73: Dikembe Mutombo (73)
72: Damian Lillard (Unranked)
71: Bob Lanier (68, +3)
70: Tony Parker (58, -12)
69: Bernard King (54, -15)
68: Pete Maravich (71, +3)
67: Alex English (62, -5)
66: Dave Cowens (55, -11)
65: Pau Gasol (56, -9)
64: Earl Monroe (60, -4)
63: Alonzo Mourning (65, +2)
62: Dennis Rodman (64, +2)
61: Robert Parish (57, -4)
60: Willis Reed (48, -12)
59: Bob McAdoo (52, -7)
58: Manu Ginobili (61, +3)
57: Clyde Drexler (36, -21)
56: Ray Allen (50, -6)
55: Vince Carter (69, +14)
54: Paul Pierce (45, -9)
53: Gary Payton (41, -12)
52: Tracy McGrady (63, +11)
51: James Worthy (43, -8)
50: Wes Unseld (53, +3)
49: Reggie Miller (51, +2)
48: Bill Walton (42, -6)
47: George Gervin (47)
46: Dominique Wilkins (44, -2)
45: Anthony Davis (Unranked)
44: Elvin Hayes (40, -4)
43: Rick Barry (37, -6)
42: Russell Westbrook (49, +7)
41: Bob Cousy (39, -2)
40: Chris Paul (29, -11)
39: Walt Frazier (38, -1)
38: Bob Pettit (34, -4)
37: Patrick Ewing (32, -5)
36: Kevin McHale (31, -5)
35: Jason Kidd (35)
34: George Mikan (33, -1)
33: John Havlicek (28, -5)
32: James Harden (97, +65)
31: Isiah Thomas (26, -5)
30: Steve Nash (30)
29: Allen Iverson (46, +17)
28: John Stockton (19, -9)
27: Giannis Antetokounmpo (Unranked)
26: Dwyane Wade (27, +1)
25: Kawhi Leonard (Unranked)
24: David Robinson (20, -4)
23: Charles Barkley (18, -5)
22: Elgin Baylor (24, +2)
21: Scottie Pippen (25, +4)
20: Kevin Garnett (21, -1)
19: Dirk Nowitzki (17, -2)
18: Moses Malone (15, -3)
17: Karl Malone (16, -1)
16: Jerry West (13, -3)
15: Julius Erving (14, -1)
14: Kevin Durant (22, +8)
13: Stephen Curry (23, +10)
12: Hakeem Olajuwon (10, -2)
11: Oscar Robertson (11)
10: Shaquille O'Neal (9, +1)
9: Kobe Bryant (12, +3)
8: Tim Duncan (8)
7: Larry Bird (6, -1)
6: Wilt Chamberlain (5, -1)
5: Magic Johnson (4, -1)
4: Bill Russell (7, +3)
3: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (2, -1)
2: LeBron James (3, +1)
1: Michael Jordan (1)

Players who fell off the list:
Carmelo Anthony: #59
Chris Webber: #66
Dwight Howard: #67
Adrian Dantley: #72
Dolph Schayes: #74

Initial thoughts:
-Damian Lillard?
-Dwight Howard absolutely deserves to be on this list over at least 5 players, if not more
-Drexler is way too low. No argument will make sense to me for how you could argue Carter, McGrady, Allen, or Miller over him
-Speaking of Reggie Miller...way too high.  Like...probably shouldn't be on the list.  To me he's the most overrated player ever
-Anthony Davis, Giannis, and Kawhi being where they are on the list is a joke.  They took some future projections into account, but good lord.  Might as well have already put Giannis top 10 if you're taking future projections into account
-Nash and Iverson should be above Stockton
-Moses and Hakeem are too low

I ask you fellow FF members...what are your thoughts?  Who's too high and who's too low?  What are the absolute travesties?

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As for the lack of consistency from 2016 on retired players? Could just be there were different voters this time around.

Pippen should not be higher than Kawhi or Wade.

Shaq is a  too low.

Giannis is about to be a back to back MVP and will likely continue this run...So while he is too high right now, will be a moot point in five or so years, barring a catastrophic injury.

Harden's recent run should give him top 25-30 consideration. A dominant postseason run and he will be up there. 

Durant when it is all said and done will be top 10 or right at the cusp.

Russell to me is too high, despite being the best winner of all time.

Nothing Carmelo did from 2016 on should have made him drop off the list. Ditto for Dwight.

Anthony Davis is a PER darling and advance stats beast so no surprise they have him up there, despite little to no postseason success. Assuming the season starts that will obviously change but don't really have much complaints about him being there since his numbers are ridiculous and the team accomplishments are soon to follow. .

Lillard has been on a tear but his postseason performances haven't matched his regular season play.

Isiah over Stockton and Nash.

 

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74? Also there was really no point to include ranking movement if the panel of judges was completely different/bigger. What am I supposed to takeaway from seeing these movements? Did Dave Cowen's legacy diminish significantly and/or that 11 new players cracked the top 66 in 4 years? Just silly.

 

 

Bolded in green= too low (underrated)

Bolded in red= too high

Bolded are just the rankings that stuck out to me, I don't necessarily  agree with every single spot I didn't bold. 

 

74: Artis Gilmore (70, -4)
73: Dikembe Mutombo (73)
72: Damian Lillard (Unranked) (nah)
71: Bob Lanier (68, +3)
70: Tony Parker (58, -12) (I just don't see top 75 player here. Top 100 maybe?)
69: Bernard King (54, -15)
68: Pete Maravich (71, +3)
67: Alex English (62, -5) (should be closer to TMac, VC, Wilkins. All those guys flashy scorers should be in that 50-60 range IMO.)
66: Dave Cowens (55, -11)
65: Pau Gasol (56, -9)
64: Earl Monroe (60, -4) (always think he's been overrated for playing in NY. Wouldn't crack my top 74).
63: Alonzo Mourning (65, +2)
62: Dennis Rodman (64, +2)
61: Robert Parish (57, -4)
60: Willis Reed (48, -12)
59: Bob McAdoo (52, -7)
58: Manu Ginobili (61, +3) (great teammate, one of the greatest players off the bench, but look around. We are dealing with superstars, elite robins, or specialists who did their thing better than anyone else. Manu is just out of place. Probably cracks top 100, but 58? Come on now.)
57: Clyde Drexler (36, -21) (WTF, they had it right the 1st time.)
56: Ray Allen (50, -6)
55: Vince Carter (69, +14)
54: Paul Pierce (45, -9)
53: Gary Payton (41, -12) (closer to 40 than 50, had it right the 1st time)
52: Tracy McGrady (63, +11)
51: James Worthy (43, -8)
50: Wes Unseld (53, +3)
49: Reggie Miller (51, +2) (maybe the most egregious ranking on this list. I can't see a single player on my window atm (goes up to 63) that I would call Reggie Miller a better player than).
48: Bill Walton (42, -6)
47: George Gervin (47)
46: Dominique Wilkins (44, -2)
45: Anthony Davis (Unranked) (lol)
44: Elvin Hayes (40, -4)
43: Rick Barry (37, -6) (same argument as Pettit)
42: Russell Westbrook (49, +7) (probably top 50 when it's said and done, but don't think he'll be this high in say 15 years).
41: Bob Cousy (39, -2)
40: Chris Paul (29, -11) (Top 30. Better than Nash, better than Kidd. Arguably better than Stockton. Not done either, he was playing All-NBA caliber ball this year)
39: Walt Frazier (38, -1)
38: Bob Pettit (34, -4) (I mean sure, doesn't even belong on the list if we're talking pure ability, but if Mikan is here, we are talking how good they were in their era (and fairly weighing each era differently, with being good in 10s > being good in 50s, Pettit should be top 25. All-NBA 1st team in 10 straight year.
37: Patrick Ewing (32, -5)
36: Kevin McHale (31, -5)
35: Jason Kidd (35)
34: George Mikan (33, -1)
33: John Havlicek (28, -5)
32: James Harden (97, +65) (even though this is clear recency bias and projection like the other 2, I won't lol at this because there's at least a decent resume here. The lack of postseason success, and postseason play, makes it hard to put him over some of these names unless you're projecting his career. Assuming he never has real postseason success as "the guy" this is where I could see him end up, but that entails another few years of near 30 PPG)
31: Isiah Thomas (26, -5) (should easily be over the PG below him, and top 25 tbh)
30: Steve Nash (30)
29: Allen Iverson (46, +17) (bit too high)
28: John Stockton (19, -9)
27: Giannis Antetokounmpo (Unranked) (lol.. I mean his resume is borderline top 100. If we are just projecting, put him top 15)
26: Dwyane Wade (27, +1) (would have him and Pippen closer, both top 25)
25: Kawhi Leonard (Unranked) (lol)
24: David Robinson (20, -4)
23: Charles Barkley (18, -5)
22: Elgin Baylor (24, +2)
21: Scottie Pippen (25, +4)
20: Kevin Garnett (21, -1)
19: Dirk Nowitzki (17, -2)
18: Moses Malone (15, -3)
17: Karl Malone (16, -1)
16: Jerry West (13, -3)
15: Julius Erving (14, -1)
14: Kevin Durant (22, +8) 
13: Stephen Curry (23, +10) (only 3x 1st team all-NBA... he'll probably get here, age shouldn't affect his play style as much as other guards, but not yet. Also over KD!?)
12: Hakeem Olajuwon (10, -2)
11: Oscar Robertson (11)
10: Shaquille O'Neal (9, +1) (I don't have a MAJOR gripe with #10 for Shaq, but seeing him lower than Kobe is ridiculous. Probably should be over Duncan, but there's argument there.)
9: Kobe Bryant (12, +3)
8: Tim Duncan (8)
7: Larry Bird (6, -1)
6: Wilt Chamberlain (5, -1)
5: Magic Johnson (4, -1)
4: Bill Russell (7, +3)
3: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (2, -1)
2: LeBron James (3, +1)
1: Michael Jordan (1)

 

Snubs: Dwight Howard, Ben Wallace, Chris Webber, Melo, 

These are just recent players off the top of my head/I saw mentioned in thread. Does Lillard, or did Tony Parker, have a better resume, or a bigger impact at any 1 point, than the above guys? I think not. 

Edited by RandyMossIsBoss
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The list defiantly over hyped the current big stars. Especially Giannis. The guy is a monster on pace to have an amazing career but 27th best of all time with no rings, no finals appearance, 1 all NBA 1st team? He’s most likely getting back to back MVPs, which helps but the guy is only in his 7th season and has only been out of round 1 once. 
 

same could be said about Kawhi but everyone knows finals MVPs are worth everything in GOAT discussions. 
 

I also think Tim Duncan is too low, he’s got to be top 6. 

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19 hours ago, dtait93 said:

James Harden 32nd?

I think that’s pretty fair. He’s somewhere 30-40. His resume is impressive when dealing with individual rankings. 
 

6th man of year

MVP

3 time scoring champ (one of just 9)

Assist leader (only 4 or 5 guys have a scoring title and assist title in their career)

Leading scorer of an entire decade 

5 time first team all NBA 

8 time all star 

He’s lacked in the winning category but he’s got an NBA finals birth and has made 2 conference finals, so it’s not like he’s  been a 1st round out every year. 
 

I wouldn’t complain if he was anywhere in the 30s 

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16 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

As for the lack of consistency from 2016 on retired players? Could just be there were different voters this time around.

Pippen should not be higher than Kawhi or Wade.

Shaq is a  too low.

Giannis is about to be a back to back MVP and will likely continue this run...So while he is too high right now, will be a moot point in five or so years, barring a catastrophic injury.

Harden's recent run should give him top 25-30 consideration. A dominant postseason run and he will be up there. 

Durant when it is all said and done will be top 10 or right at the cusp.

Russell to me is too high, despite being the best winner of all time.

Nothing Carmelo did from 2016 on should have made him drop off the list. Ditto for Dwight.

Anthony Davis is a PER darling and advance stats beast so no surprise they have him up there, despite little to no postseason success. Assuming the season starts that will obviously change but don't really have much complaints about him being there since his numbers are ridiculous and the team accomplishments are soon to follow. .

Lillard has been on a tear but his postseason performances haven't matched his regular season play.

Isiah over Stockton and Nash.

 

On what planet has Kawhi had a better career than Pippen?

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9 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

74? Also there was really no point to include ranking movement if the panel of judges was completely different/bigger. What am I supposed to takeaway from seeing these movements? Did Dave Cowen's legacy diminish significantly and/or that 11 new players cracked the top 66 in 4 years? Just silly.

74 for 74 completed NBA seasons.

I included the previous rankings from 2016 just for fun and to elicit discussion on the boards. Hard to get people posting right now, so showing the rises and falls helps add a little oomph.

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