MOSteelers56 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, oksteeler said: I agree with the whole viewpoint of versatility. This will be our greatest weapon on offense. We will have more depth on offense than 90% of the league and that is a really good thing. What we don't have is elite talent. Ben is no longer a top 5 quarterback, Connor isn't top 15, McDonald isn't top 15 and JJSS isn't top 10. This is all fine, until someone is able to line up across from you with better athletes. A Revis Island corner provides the same thing that a top 5 wr does, mismatches that make the opponent adjust every time. We look like an AFC contender, but unless we have great health and breakout years from a wideout (JJSS) and a runningback (Connor or McFarland) we will find our ceiling short of a championship. Either way we are in for a fun and exciting season with an exceptional team. I think our defense is probably good enough to win a SB without any elite offensive guys. We might not have a star player on offense but we have a lot of guys that can beat teams. We might not have a 1500 yard WR but we might have 4 guys with 800-900 yards just in the WR group. That is just as challenging for defenses to gameplan against. No team’s #4 coverage guy is going to do well against Washington, Claypool, Vance, or Ebron. I think Ben might have one top 5 year left in him. He threw for 5k the last full year he played, granted that wasn’t a super balanced offense, but I think we’re as much SB contenders as anyone. This is all contingent on Ben’s arm, though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I hate to be 'Debbie Downer', but we must always remember these...Starters/key Players who missed 10+ games, last season... 2019 - BR, Davis, Tuitt, Nix, and still...Shazier (plus Connor missed, what, 7 games?) Our ENTIRE 2016 draft class is gone, and our 2014/2015 aren't lookin' too great either...that's an entire year's worth of young talent...wasted...and we haven't really been fortunate in having Days 1 and 2 picks pan-out over the last 5 years. Other than 2019, Dupree has performed more like one would expect from a Day 2 pick, and both Day 2 picks are gone. 2016 has already been discussed... we're 3-for-4 in 2017 (Sutton??)...2018??? Ummm...1.5 for 3?? IDK...2019 is too early to tell, but looks like a solid 2-for-3, at least, thankfully, and we know we are at least 1-for-3 in 2020 (Minkah). Point is things are looking better now, and 2013/2014 combined looked good a couple years back, but since??? Looking pretty paltry as well. These are players we should be expecting better than a 50% contribution for in 2020; 2013 was just 7 years ago...At best, if Layne pans out, we are 10-for-22 between 2013-2019... I'm going off on a tangent here, I know, but let's face it...every year we think we are going to go '3-for-3' with production from these picks, but history shows potentially half those picks don't pan-out, and we already have a known 1-for-3 in 2020...and as much as I believe in Claypool, there is definitely risk there, and our 3rd Rd pick is development all the way... Ben will hopefully be at 100%. but even if he is, that's a 38 YO there, coming off elbow surgery regardless of his optimism, we should be 'guarded' with what to expect. Conner has yet to give us 16 games; same with Vance, who is, let's face it, not in the top 20 starting TEs in the league...and neither Ebron from 2019... I'm just saying we are banking on a lot of 'maybe's for 2020...I'm excited, as you are, and think the potential could be through the roof, but I'm also expecting to have 3-4 starters out of the line-up for any given week...and as we saw, some 'starters' are more critical than others... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) @Ward4HOF Valid points. I think the Steelers are a playoff team this year but I'll be shocked if they are a Super Bowl contender. They need Connor & Juju to stay healthy beyond just Been for sure for their offense to be average. That's for sure. And 100% agree their drafts from a few years ago haven't lived up to those of previous years. And, those drafts of last decade and earlier this decade are the reason the Steelers were always a playoff team and sometimes a Super Bowl contender since 2005. Edited May 22, 2020 by turtle28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: @Ward4HOF Valid points. I think the Steelers are a playoff team this year but I'll be shocked if they are a Super Bowl contender. They need Connor & Juju to stay healthy beyond just Been for sure for their offense to be average. That's for sure. And 100% agree their drafts from a few years ago haven't lived up to those of previous years. And, those drafts of last decade and earlier this decade are the reason the Steelers were always a playoff team and sometimes a Super Bowl contender since 2005. I don’t think Connor is that important to the overall success of the offense. Snell, Samuel, McFarland is fine. I disagree mightily about us needing perfect health from JuJu and Connor to just be average. If Ben’s healthy were better than average offensively almost regardless of who he has for weapons. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Ben will make the running game better. Teams were putting 10 men in the box because they knew it was either a run or a pass within 5 yards of the LOS. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 13 hours ago, jebrick said: Ben will make the running game better. Teams were putting 10 men in the box because they knew it was either a run or a pass within 5 yards of the LOS. I think that even a year of seasoning for Rudolph will make our Running game better, if, in the event that Ben doesn't stay healthy. Tomlin and Colbert seem very comfortable with Rudolph, and assuming, to a lesser degree, Duck. We've all been pretty harsh on Rudolph, but we need to remember that even most 1st Rd QBs that come into their 1st season, will often times have their 'warts' to figure out, and fine tune, as well. Rudolph can throw a long ball, very nicely, at times. He has NFL size, arm strength, and some of the intangibles that are required to be successful (FB IQ, pocket presence, progressions, etc.), however, his footwork, and subsequently, his aim and touch, still suffer, but these are coachable attributes, potentially. He seems to be erratic, even with his strengths, by staring down receivers and not going through progressions, when things start to go 'south', but remember, it was his very first season playing int he NFL I'll admit, I do not see Rudolph as our QBOTF, but Tomlin and Colbert seem to believe in him, so maybe they see some things in his development that we just aren't seeing, as fans...my point with all this, is I expect, even without Ben playing a full season, that Rudolph will be able to come in, as needed, and perform better than he did last season, which, if we're being honest, he performed decent enough for a good portion of last season, that he might be able to pull #2 duties for a time, and act as a transitional QB until we are in a position to draft one. I bring all this up to basically mean that we should be able to weather the storm, if Ben is injured, better than last season, so long as our #1 WR , TE, and RB remain healthy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeler Hitman Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 32 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: I think that even a year of seasoning for Rudolph will make our Running game better, if, in the event that Ben doesn't stay healthy. The team gambled keeping Dobbs over Landry going back to 2018. They were not cutting Mason as he was viewed as a potential starting QB of the future (looking into post Ben to keep the team competitive). The team had hoped that Ben would stay healthy. I fully believe that Mason was expected to simply sit and learn for a minimum of three years. He did not look great in pre-season last year and many of us commented that we hoped Ben stays healthy for the reasons that we saw last year. The Steelers gambled and lost. The best thing for Mason's development is to sit another year (especially now with no mini-camps, etc. due to the pandemic). We all hope and pray Ben and the rest of the team stay healthy. It came out that the team tried to sign Landry who had already signed a contract with the XFL. Why I like having a former starter as the #2 and let the QB of the future sit and learn. Tomlin and Colbert seem very comfortable with Rudolph, and assuming, to a lesser degree, Duck. We've all been pretty harsh on Rudolph, but we need to remember that even most 1st Rd QBs that come into their 1st season, will often times have their 'warts' to figure out, and fine tune, as well. Rudolph can throw a long ball, very nicely, at times. He has NFL size, arm strength, and some of the intangibles that are required to be successful (FB IQ, pocket presence, progressions, etc.), however, his footwork, and subsequently, his aim and touch, still suffer, but these are coachable attributes, potentially. He seems to be erratic, even with his strengths, by staring down receivers and not going through progressions, when things start to go 'south', but remember, it was his very first season playing int he NFL I agree. You keep Mason watching and learning. Teams will stack the box against a QB who struggles with pressure and is inexperienced. Mason and Duck BOTH actually far exceeded expectations. As fans, we got greedy with the success that they had. It caught up to them and the Steelers were playing some good defenses down the stretch when they started losing at the end of the season. I'll admit, I do not see Rudolph as our QBOTF, but Tomlin and Colbert seem to believe in him, so maybe they see some things in his development that we just aren't seeing, as fans... Mason did not look like the second coming of Big Ben or a QB of the future. Let's not forget that he and Duck were forced into service. They were not ready, but still went 8-6 between them. That was a third rounder and a free agent starting for Big Ben minus Ju Ju and Connor. While I don't see the next Tom, Peyton, Drew or Ben from them, they actually did pretty darn good for the circumstances they were thrust into. As fans we get caught up with wins, losses, efficiency, and stats. They were not pretty, but they were more than satisfactory based on what they were prepared for and what was expected of them. They were competitive in every game they played. Yes, the defense helped greatly, but they were often in position to tie or win late in many games (Bills and Jets in particular). my point with all this, is I expect, even without Ben playing a full season, that Rudolph will be able to come in, as needed, and perform better than he did last season, which, if we're being honest, he performed decent enough for a good portion of last season, that he might be able to pull #2 duties for a time, and act as a transitional QB until we are in a position to draft one. I believe that both Mason and Duck will be better and have grown, but God knows that I hope and pray that he, Duck and/or Paxton don't play any meaningful regular season snaps. I.E. Ben remains healthy or the offense is blowing teams out and they give them fourth quarter run the clock down experience. I bring all this up to basically mean that we should be able to weather the storm, if Ben is injured, better than last season, so long as our #1 WR , TE, and RB remain healthy. We need them all to be healthy. The offense runs better, passes better and can do more things with all of its talent in place and playing the roles they should. Snell will be better as a change of pace to Connor. Samuels will be better in his natural role. Ju Ju, Dionte, Washington, Claypool, Ebron and Vance will all be better with each other healthy. Our running game is better when teams don't put ten in the box. They can't do that with a healthy Ben as he will eat them up and make them pay. Mason and Duck will be better, but can't do what does even at 75%. Ben's experience and savvy puts him light years ahead of them. Hopefully they get some pre-season games that allow all the QB's and players some meaningful reps. Too often, I felt the offense was rusty because they didn't get enough game experience trying to keep everyone healthy. Again that back-fired in 2019. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 On 5/21/2020 at 5:22 PM, MOSteelers56 said: I think our defense is probably good enough to win a SB without any elite offensive guys. We might not have a star player on offense but we have a lot of guys that can beat teams. We might not have a 1500 yard WR but we might have 4 guys with 800-900 yards just in the WR group. That is just as challenging for defenses to gameplan against. No team’s #4 coverage guy is going to do well against Washington, Claypool, Vance, or Ebron. I think Ben might have one top 5 year left in him. He threw for 5k the last full year he played, granted that wasn’t a super balanced offense, but I think we’re as much SB contenders as anyone. This is all contingent on Ben’s arm, though. There's no way just the D can carry a team to a Super Bowl in today's NFL. The rules have changed so much to favor the offense. And, no defenses were able to shut down Pat Mahomes last year. Gonna have to score near 30 to beat that cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, turtle28 said: There's no way just the D can carry a team to a Super Bowl in today's NFL. The rules have changed so much to favor the offense. And, no defenses were able to shut down Pat Mahomes last year. Gonna have to score near 30 to beat that cat. I don’t think the defense can carry the offense to the SB, but you were saying we have no “elite” talent. I’m arguing that the defense is an elite talent. Even a marginal improvement on offense takes us to perhaps the second round of the playoffs. With the turnaround this offense is capable of, we’re absolutely SB contenders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, MOSteelers56 said: I don’t think the defense can carry the offense to the SB, but you were saying we have no “elite” talent. I’m arguing that the defense is an elite talent. Even a marginal improvement on offense takes us to perhaps the second round of the playoffs. With the turnaround this offense is capable of, we’re absolutely SB contenders. Did I say that? If I did I don't remember it and I misspoke. I definitely think that Juju Smith is an elite talent at WR. Ben when healthy is an elite talent and so are Pouncey & Decastro. The D definitely has several elite talented players. But, in today's game you need a near complete team - really always did - to win a Super Bowl. There's only been one team that I think of in NFL history to win a Super Bowl that wasn't near complete and that was the 2000 Ravens who did it with arguably the best D in NFL history and an elite running game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Did I say that? If I did I don't remember it and I misspoke. I definitely think that Juju Smith is an elite talent at WR. Ben when healthy is an elite talent and so are Pouncey & Decastro. The D definitely has several elite talented players. But, in today's game you need a near complete team - really always did - to win a Super Bowl. There's only been one team that I think of in NFL history to win a Super Bowl that wasn't near complete and that was the 2000 Ravens who did it with arguably the best D in NFL history and an elite running game. You didn’t say that. I thought it was you but it was someone else. I agree that we need to be balanced offensively and defensively. I think this team as constructed can win it all. I mean it really is a crapshoot anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Looks like DJ's hospital pic was for a sports hernia surgery and he is now close to returning. Not sure if everyone knew that or not. I'd been wondering for sometime what that pic was about. "Good news". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 On 5/22/2020 at 3:49 PM, MOSteelers56 said: I don’t think Connor is that important to the overall success of the offense. Snell, Samuel, McFarland is fine. I disagree mightily about us needing perfect health from JuJu and Connor to just be average. If Ben’s healthy were better than average offensively almost regardless of who he has for weapons. I think that the other backs as a collective group can be serviceable as a RB corps but, Connor is the most talented RB the Steelers have and the most versatile, when he’s healthy the Steelers O is definitely better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 hours ago, turtle28 said: I think that the other backs as a collective group can be serviceable as a RB corps but, Connor is the most talented RB the Steelers have and the most versatile, when he’s healthy the Steelers O is definitely better. I agree. I just don’t think RB is that important in general. I just mean, I think we have enough talent to win without a top tier back. I’m not saying Conner is that, either. I think we can win without him, it would be better to have him, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: I agree. I just don’t think RB is that important in general. I just mean, I think we have enough talent to win without a top tier back. I’m not saying Conner is that, either. I think we can win without him, it would be better to have him, though. I don’t agree, I think RB is more important than people realize. It’s not as important as it was a decade ago and the previous 5 decades of NFL football but, if you have a RB who can’t be stopped by the D then it’s almost a guaranteed ticket to the playoffs. Perfect example is Henry & the Titans last year. Their passing game was average, their D was average but their running game was the best or 2nd best in the NFL and it almost got them to the Super Bowl. Same w/ the 49ers and their running game helped them almost win the Super Bowl. And we all know what the Ravens did bc of their running game. Also, RBs in today’s game are huge to a passing game. They are an outlet for the QB obviously if nothing is open downfield. Also, a good receiving RB like Le’Veon Bell can make a lot of plays w/ mismatches vs LBs or on screens. RB is still huge IMO in today’s game but it’s just in different ways. Possibly to hopefully keep Conner more healthy they should have Bennie Snell Or McFarland split carries with him and Conner will split those carries and be the 3rd down/receiving back. Like 250 carries at most for Conner throughout the season even if he plays all 16 games. 15 carries a game, 20 touches a game including receptions. Then, Snell or McFarland get 5 to 10 carries a game. Edited June 12, 2020 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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