Where would Tom Brady rank all time if he didn't win any Super Bowls

[Danger]

Without Championships for both of them. He's certainly behind Peyton Manning. That's undeniable.

[DannyB]

6 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Strictly ability?

Mike Vick>Rodgers

Does being able to throw the football well count as an ability for a quarterback?

[Soko]

2 minutes ago, DannyB said:

Does being able to throw the football well count as an ability for a quarterback?

Yes, that’s why Vick’s cannon arm clearly puts him above most. 

[Apparition]

50 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

Maybe my favorite thing to read is how people forget Belichick was likely well on his way to getting fired from New England as he was 5-13 with the highest paid QB in NFL history at the time(Drew Bledsoe, and Belichick was HC when they signed him to the record breaking deal after his initial 5-11 season in 2000, so it's not like Belichick had to inherit that..he chose Bledsoe to be his QB). In the 18 games with Drew Bledsoe the Patriots scored 16.4 ppg. Over the final 14 games of the 2001 season when Brady took over as starter they scored 22.3 ppg.

Or how people bring up the Cassel thing like the Patriots didn't go from scoring 36.8 ppg with Brady in 2007 to 25.6 ppg in 08 with Cassel.

So somehow this system that made Brady couldn't make the highest paid QB ever(at the time) look good and resulted in an 11 ppg drop off with another.

Nevermind the 11 ppg drop-off
It was a 5-win drop-off. A 5-win drop-off would've meant neither of last year's Super Bowl teams would've made the playoffs.
And that was with the league's easiest schedule. 

[DannyB]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Yes, that’s why Vick’s cannon arm clearly puts him above most. 

First of all, ask JaMarcus Russell or Kyle Boller what good just being able to launch the ball out of a stadium is. You can probably find them working at your local Dunkin Donuts at this point.

Second, Rodgers's arm is probably just about as strong as Vick's.

[FinSting]

7 hours ago, $andtrap said:

If Brady was anything special, Belichick would have offered him a contract.

Seriously. Only 6 Super Bowl wins? Pffft, loser. Traded for a Player to be Named Later. 

[Xenos]

7 hours ago, $andtrap said:

* During his tenure with New England.

If Brady was anything special, Belichick would have offered him a contract.

That's the difference between Brady and Peyton. Indy let Peyton go due to medical reasons; if they knew he had a couple of years left in the tank they absolutely would have brought him back.

So exactly 19-19 without Tom Brady.

 

[Soko]

30 minutes ago, DannyB said:

First of all, ask JaMarcus Russell or Kyle Boller what good just being able to launch the ball out of a stadium is. You can probably find them working at your local Dunkin Donuts at this point.

Second, Rodgers's arm is probably just about as strong as Vick's.

First of all, that’s the point. Talent/ability is useless, especially as a QB, without all the other nuances. That’s why judging someone based off of those traits alone is a dumb thing to do. 

Second, nah. Vick’s was stronger + the rest of his physical traits make it a landslide.

[DannyB]

7 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

First of all, that’s the point. Talent/ability is useless, especially as a QB, without all the other nuances. That’s why judging someone based off of those traits alone is a dumb thing to do. 

My point is there are more "abilities" than throwing far and running fast. Accuracy is an ability, touch is an ability, anticipation is an ability. Diagnosing a defense presnap, communicating blocking schemes, footwork, climbing the pocket, etc etc etc, these are all abilities of a quarterback.

 

11 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Second, nah. Vick’s was stronger + the rest of his physical traits make it a landslide.

Prove it. Show me his farthest throw. Or are you just parroting big fish stories that people like to pass along? I'm not saying Rodgers has definitively the stronger arm, but they're at least pretty comparable.

[JAF-N72EX]

37 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Second, nah. Vick’s was stronger + the rest of his physical traits make it a landslide.

I don't know man. As far as arm strength. No doubt Vick had a cannon but your underestimating Rodgers.  I watched this man throw a 60 yard ball(? I think) downfield at such a high angle that it looked like it was going to hit the lights at the top of the stadium. That's not easy to do. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by JustAnotherFan

[Soko]

19 minutes ago, DannyB said:

My point is there are more "abilities" than throwing far and running fast. Accuracy is an ability, touch is an ability, anticipation is an ability. Diagnosing a defense presnap, communicating blocking schemes, footwork, climbing the pocket, etc etc etc, these are all abilities of a quarterback.

By your definition, maybe. I’d call those skills. 

OP clearly does not value accuracy, touch, anticipation, presnap reading, footwork, etc. either, because Brady is fringe 10th in ability.

Quote

Prove it. Show me his farthest throw. Or are you just parroting big fish stories that people like to pass along? I'm not saying Rodgers has definitively the stronger arm, but they're at least pretty comparable.

You caught me. I’m actually a big pusher of that particular big fish media narrative. I’m a “Vick has more ability than Rodgers” sheep that ESPN, NFLN, etc, all put out on the daily...guilty.

[DannyB]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

By your definition, maybe. I’d call those skills. 

OP clearly does not value accuracy, touch, anticipation, presnap reading, footwork, etc. either, because Brady is fringe 10th in ability.

Skill is literally a synonym of ability. It's part of the dictionary definition of "ability"

And the OP is obviously missing a few crayons in his box as it is. But even so, he lists Peyton first, so if he's just looking for somebody to throw the football over them mountains, he ain't it.

3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

You caught me. I’m actually a big pusher of that particular big fish media narrative. I’m a “Vick has more ability than Rodgers” sheep that ESPN, NFLN, etc, all put out on the daily...guilty.

I knew it. I KNEW IT.

[Soko]

12 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I don't know man. As far as arm strength. No doubt Vick had a cannon but your underestimating Rodgers.  I watched this man throw a 60 yard ball(? I think) downfield at such a high angle that it looked like it was going to hit the lights at the top of the stadium. That's not easy to do. 

What makes you think I’m underestimating Rodgers?

[Everybodyluvstheniners]

joe cool is the greatest. 

 

[DannyB]

9 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

What makes you think I’m underestimating Rodgers?

Well there's video evidence of Rodgers throwing 70+ yard bombs from awkward angles, and of course the Lions hail mary which was over 65 yards down the field, which isn't all that spectacular for him, but he also had the strength to give it the loft of a punt.

That's about what Vick has been recorded doing too. There are stories of him flinging it like 75 routinely in practice, but that's what Rodgers does too. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by DannyB