Where would Tom Brady rank all time if he didn't win any Super Bowls

[Apparition]

11 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

In the alternative universe where Brady is a nobody he still somehow bags Bridget Moynihan, you gotta respect the man's hustle. 

I mean, have you seen AJ McCarron's wife?

[Mr Bad Example]

On 5/17/2020 at 1:57 PM, Warhorse said:

 

Roger Staubach

 

It's amazing to me that Staubach seems to be underrated if not downright forgotten these days. Best QB of the 70s, just edging out Ken Anderson and Tarkenton. 

[Mr Bad Example]

17 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I just feel like you are getting so caught up on how strong Vick's arm was that it may be clouding your judgement of other QB's such as Rodgers. Plus, it seems people always talk about Rodgers' great accuracy, footwork, manipulating the defense...all of those things he does but very rarely do I hear about how strong of an arm he has and you come off as one of those people. I feel like his arm strenght has been underrated. 

And mind you, this is all coming from a Bears fan.

A "cannon arm" is one of those traits that seems to exist solely to get GMs/coaches fired. Let's start by listing QBs who DIDN'T have cannon arms - not in their prime, not ever:

- P Manning

- Brady

- Montana

- Staubach

....these guys certainly didn't have BAD arms, by any means; I think people overestimate the use of an eye-popping trait (say, a cannon arm or a blazing 40 time) and forget that a LOT of NFL players may not have had an amazing (quality x), but they had *enough* of it...Montana didn't have a cannon arm, but he had enough of an arm to make all the throws; Jerry Rice wasn't a burner but he had enough speed to get past DBs; Walter Payton wasn't the biggest or fastest back, but he had enough size and speed to complement his off-the-charts intangibles. Etc. 

[DannyB]

1 hour ago, Mr Bad Example said:

- Brady

As was discussed earlier in this thread, Brady doesn't belong in that group. Maybe he's not at the absolute top of the heap when it comes to those "can hum it 80 yards on a frozen rope from his knees with just a flick of his wrist!" guys, but when he had to, he could unleash a howitzer.

[Mr Bad Example]

3 hours ago, DannyB said:

As was discussed earlier in this thread, Brady doesn't belong in that group. Maybe he's not at the absolute top of the heap when it comes to those "can hum it 80 yards on a frozen rope from his knees with just a flick of his wrist!" guys, but when he had to, he could unleash a howitzer.

Nah. You're overrating his arm. It is by no means bad, but he was more of a timing/touch guy. I feel like people think deep passes indicate arm strength, and to me it's more how quickly they can fire a quick slant or zip a deep out. I'd probably, in his prime, rate him in the top 1/3 at best (and considering we're in peak QB, that's not a bad place to be). 

[JAF-N72EX]

15 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

I've seen Vick legit throw a 60 yd laser, with a flick of the wrist. There is no comparison between the two IMO when it comes to overall "arm strength".

Vicks closer to Farve, then Rodgers is to Vick.

I'm not taking anything away from Vick (one of my favorite players of all-time). I'm talking about how underrated Rodgers arm strength is. I have watched this man's whole career and have watched him throw deep passes downfield look effortless while under pressure and on the move. Even his 40-50 yard passes look like one of us tossing a ball over our shoulder. 

19 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Nah. You're overrating his arm. It is by no means bad, but he was more of a timing/touch guy. I feel like people think deep passes indicate arm strength, and to me it's more how quickly they can fire a quick slant or zip a deep out. I'd probably, in his prime, rate him in the top 1/3 at best (and considering we're in peak QB, that's not a bad place to be). 

Brady has played in a system that relies more on quick passes with short route schemes so you're not going to see alot of deep downfield passes from him but it certainly doesn't mean that he isn't capable.  

Edited May 19, 2020 by JustAnotherFan

[DannyB]

18 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Nah. You're overrating his arm. It is by no means bad, but he was more of a timing/touch guy. I feel like people think deep passes indicate arm strength, and to me it's more how quickly they can fire a quick slant or zip a deep out. I'd probably, in his prime, rate him in the top 1/3 at best (and considering we're in peak QB, that's not a bad place to be). 

I feel like YOU don't know what arm strength means. How quick you can fire a ball would be release speed, and being able to zip a deep out requires arm strength, which would also result in a deep pass if angled right.

Brady launched the ball over 70 yards to Moss (incomplete) in the Super Bowl, and threw a bomb to (I believe) Brandin Cooks that was 68 yards downfield but about 10 yards further to the outside.

I love when people say that being able to fire a ball through a tight window is somehow a different kind of arm strength than launching a hail mary. IT'S ALL FORCE APPLIED TO THE BALL. Of course things like accuracy, timing, and comfort of throwing motion come into play, but the force applied to the ball is the same thing.

[DannyB]

16 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

I've seen Vick legit throw a 60 yd laser, with a flick of the wrist. There is no comparison between the two IMO when it comes to overall "arm strength".

Vicks closer to Farve, then Rodgers is to Vick.

Again, I hear everybody talk about Vick hitting satellites with his passes, yet nobody can show me. Seriously, where's the video. I posted the longest Vick pass I could find.

And I think, with a clean base, and all the time to short hop into the throw, both Vick and Rodgers could probably throw further than Favre. At the 1998 QB Challenge, in his physical peak, Favre threw it 74 yards. I bet at their peak, both Vick and Rodgers could at least match that. There's video evidence of Rodgers doing it in a game, bad footing, awkward throwing angle.

[$andtrap]

The amount of times I've seen Brady look completely clueless if he's going against a defense he's never seen before is another knock. I can't remember a time where that happened to Peyton.

[Mr Bad Example]

18 hours ago, DannyB said:

I feel like YOU don't know what arm strength means.

Yes, clearly. Watching Brett Favre for 15 yrs gave me no idea of what a "cannon arm" is. 

[DannyB]

3 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Yes, clearly. Watching Brett Favre for 15 yrs gave me no idea of what a "cannon arm" is. 

Then feel free to address my point.

[Mr Bad Example]

18 hours ago, DannyB said:

Then feel free to address my point.

Not much point. We apparently have a wildly different definition of what a "cannon" arm is. 

[DannyB]

2 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Not much point. We apparently have a wildly different definition of what a "cannon" arm is. 

My point is that the arm strength used to zip deep outs is the same arm strength used to launch hail marys as far as you can. It's just force being applied to an object.

[Heinz D.]

On 5/17/2020 at 2:16 PM, Yin-Yang said:

Strictly ability?

Mike Vick>Rodgers

[Soko]

15 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Read the rest. Semantically, differentiating skill set and ability pretty drastically changes the discussion.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Yin-Yang