lancerman Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: No. Kareem played for 20 years, obviously his counting stats are higher. And centers shoot close to the basket, so their FG%s are higher. And he has more accolades, stat leadership, MVP’s and longevity than Jordan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, lancerman said: Ahhh the younger people are right and the people that actually saw that era are wrong. The people who saw the era gave MJ the MVP in 1987-88. And in the NBA MVP is usually given to the best player on the best team, not the overall best player. Meanwhile, Brady is still sitting on 3 all-pros. When directly compared to his contemporaries, Brady was considered the best QB 3 times in 20 years. I don't care if all pro is hard to get than all NBA, I don't see how you can recover from this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, lancerman said: And he has more accolades, stat leadership, MVP’s and longevity than Jordan. And yet, he's not even in the conversation as being better than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: The people who saw the era gave MJ the MVP in 1987-88. And in the NBA MVP is usually given to the best player on the best team, not the overall best player. Meanwhile, Brady is still sitting on 3 all-pros. When directly compared to his contemporaries, Brady was considered the best QB 3 times in 20 years. I don't care if all pro is hard to get than all NBA, I don't see how you can recover from this one. Which means nothing... they gave Larry 2 (and he won 3 in a row.) and Magic 3 in Jordan’s first 6 years. So they actually thought those guys were better than him. Edited May 25, 2020 by lancerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 minute ago, lancerman said: Which means nothing... they gave Larry 2 (and he won 3 in a row.) and Magic 3 in Jordan’s first 6 years. So they actually thought those guys were better than him. If you think MVP means that person is considered the best player, I can't help you. A large factor is determined by team success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: And yet, he's not even in the conversation as being better than him. This shows how little you know about basketball lol. Yeah young ignorant people who don’t know any better don’t put him in the discussion Dr J said Kareem is the GOAT Oscar Robertson said Jordan was merely in the discussion with Kareem amongst others Walton said no hesitation that Kareem was better. Walton player against both. Many analysts put Kareem in that discussion as well Only children who don’t know any better don’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: If you think MVP means that person is considered the best player, I can't help you. A large factor is determined by team success. The media votes on All NBA’s as well lol. You can’t use that as a deflection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 24 minutes ago, lancerman said: Different sports. It’s much easier to win an All NBA than All Pro in the NFL. A lot of people in this thread are trying to compare sports that are fundamentally different. Therws 10 players with 10 First Team All NBA’s it more. There’s 2 in the NFL and one guy had to play for 20 years to do it and the other was on the 60’s. Jordan is tied with Jerry West, Bob Cousy and Bob Pettit. Malone, Bryant, and Lebdoj both have more first team All NBA’s then Jordan. Kareem has the same amount of first teams, 4 more second teams, 1 more MVP, the same amount of titles, is ahead of Jordan in all time points, field goals, assists, FG%, EFG% and TS%. Is Kareem better? Arguably Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: And yet, he's not even in the conversation as being better than him. Now that's ridiculous. Kareem, Jordan, and Lebron are the three that have legitimate GOAT cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 9 minutes ago, lancerman said: This shows how little you know about basketball lol. Yeah young ignorant people who don’t know any better don’t put him in the discussion Dr J said Kareem is the GOAT Oscar Robertson said Jordan was merely in the discussion with Kareem amongst others Walton said no hesitation that Kareem was better. Walton player against both. Many analysts put Kareem in that discussion as well Only children who don’t know any better don’t Kareem is a top 5 of all time player. But arguments can be made that he is the third best C of all time behind Russell and Wilt. Kareem was very good for a very long time. But his peak is not close to Jordan. Consider: Kareem led the league in scoring 2x in his entire career. He led the league in rebounds 1x. That's not really that impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Now that's ridiculous. Kareem, Jordan, and Lebron are the three that have legitimate GOAT cases. I just can't put a guy like Kareem as GOAT if he didn't have a transcendent peak where he was crushing the rest of the league year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 minute ago, AngusMcFife said: I just can't put a guy like Kareem as GOAT if he didn't have a transcendent peak where he was crushing the rest of the league year after year. From 71-80 he had 6 MVP’s, was an All NBA player every year from 1970-79 except 75 and then resumed that In 81, 82-86. He made the All defensive team 11 times. He was easily the top player of the 70’s and early 80’s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 minute ago, lancerman said: From 71-80 he had 6 MVP’s, was an All NBA player every year from 1970-79 except 75 and then resumed that In 81, 82-86. He made the All defensive team 11 times. He was easily the top player of the 70’s and early 80’s Yes Kareem was incredible in the 70s when he won his MVPs, and he was quite good in the 1980s when he won championships with the Lakers. Top 5 all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Now that's ridiculous. Kareem, Jordan, and Lebron are the three that have legitimate GOAT cases. The difference between Jordan and Kareem is that Kareem had individual success early, and team success late. In the 70s with the Bucks he was the best player, but that did not translate into a championship except in 71. It was only after he was surrounded by multiple HOFers and became second fiddle to Magic that he won most his championships. By contrast, Jordan was the best player on the best team that won 6 championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 5 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: And therein lies the difference. One guy you wouldn't take issue with the opinion. The other guy you would take issue if the opinion was anything else, unless you were actually in the city of Houston. And again, a lot of that is just innate to the respective sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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