DannyB Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 3 hours ago, ET80 said: I wouldn't argue this, either. Mike Tyson and boxing? Usain Bolt and sprinting? Michael Phelps and swimming? Yeah, those were all singular phenoms that garnered a ton of interest for themselves, but I don't think they had as much of an effect on the sports overall. I was a young teenager when Tiger blew up. He single-handedly brought that sport from being an ancient pastime for olds, something that my grandpa would fall asleep in his recliner to, to something that was suddenly cool. I had a lot of friends who started taking up golf, it became a common hobby for a TON of younger people nationwide because of Tiger. Interest in both playing and watching skyrocketed. Here's an article from a few years ago that breaks down the "Tiger Effect": http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2014/08/06/measuring-the-tiger-effect-doubling-of-tour-prize-money-billions-extra-into-players-pockets-060801/ To sum up the most cogent points: From 1990-1996 the total PGA prize money grew at a rate of about 3.5%. From 1997-2008, it grew at TRIPLE that rate, 9.3% per year. It went from about $100 million/year, to $292 million/year. Tiger made that sport what it is today. No young pro on the tour today wouldn't say Tiger directly inspired and influenced them to take up the game, just like NBA players at the turn of the millennium with MJ. I'm not trying to minimize what MJ did, but I don't think even he had as dramatic of an effect on his sport. He NBA had a great, compelling decade in the 80s, and MJ just carried it after the Bird/Magic era. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, DannyB said: Yeah, those were all singular phenoms that garnered a ton of interest for themselves, but I don't think they had as much of an effect on the sports overall. I would say Tyson was. Sure, the landscape of boxing was set several decades before - Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Joe Walcott - guys even before Ali and Foreman redefined their landscape. Mike Tyson - he was so young, so powerful, he would crumble folks who had superstar pedigrees. His win against Trevor Berbick was so unreal, Berbick was the Heavyweight Champion and Tyson dismantled him like a pinata, just hit him with bad intentions through that entire fight. Then Tyson went out and mugged Michael Spinks in about 90 seconds - Spinks had never hit the canvas before in a boxing match, and Tyson dropped him to the 3rd level of hell in about 30 seconds. I'll admit that Ali was more accomplished, a better fighter and an era defining figure - probably moreso than Tyson. But at his peak, Tyson was legendary in his own right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Ali was the biggest athlete of all time in his day. He was singularly dominant. He came up in an insane era. Many people would put Foreman, Frazier, and Liston as top 10 heavyweights all time. He had the narrative. The whole world stopped for his fights (Jordan was popular but his finals games weren’t SB level much less Fight of the Century level). Was a social phenomena with his activism that will go down in history. Was legitimately a world champion. He went around the planet fighting globally. Had much greater reach. He was on par with whoever the President was at any given point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, ET80 said: Mike Tyson - he was so young, so powerful, he would crumble folks who had superstar pedigrees. His win against Trevor Berbick was so unreal, Berbick was the Heavyweight Champion and Tyson dismantled him like a pinata, just hit him with bad intentions through that entire fight. Then Tyson went out and mugged Michael Spinks in about 90 seconds - Spinks had never hit the canvas before in a boxing match, and Tyson dropped him to the 3rd level of hell in about 30 seconds. Yes but you're coming at it from a different angle. I'm not arguing the merits of Tyson the fighter, who was a drop-what-you're-doing-and-watch event onto himself for sure. What I'm saying is, I don't think he had a dramatic of a ripple effect on the industry and Tiger did to golf. Did he inspire an entire generation of young people, from any and all demographics across the WORLD, to take up this game that was previously old, out of touch, only for "certain kinds" of people, and guarded by gatekeepers? Certainly young boxers that came after him probably had their interest piqued by Tyson, but boxing has never crossed over to a mainstream pastime, or maintained its stature as a viewer draw. Again, I'm not downplaying how mesmerizing and destructive he was in the ring. I just don't think he sent his sport into a previously untouched stratosphere the way Tiger did with golf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, lancerman said: He went around the planet fighting globally Only one other person has done this on such a legendary level... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plat2 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 If we include all the GOAT's and not just the team sport athletes, I'm not sure MJ makes the top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Plat2 said: If we include all the GOAT's and not just the team sport athletes, I'm not sure MJ makes the top 5. MJ can't even be a top 5 "MJ of his sport" anymore!? Man, now we're just getting disrespectful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 7 hours ago, Plat2 said: If we include all the GOAT's and not just the team sport athletes, I'm not sure MJ makes the top 5. Oh, I'd like to see this list then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Plat2 said: If we include all the GOAT's and not just the team sport athletes, I'm not sure MJ makes the top 5. I'm thinking you say.... Pele (or Maradonna/Messi), Ali, Woods (or Niklaus?), Federer, Bolt? Phelps? Schumacher/Hamilton? Edited May 29, 2020 by Hunter2_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: I'm thinking you say.... Pele (or Maradonna/Messi), Ali, Woods (or Niklaus?), Federer, Bolt? Phelps? Schumacher/Hamilton? I'm thinking that if you have to offer up multiple examples from the same sport, then they're not really a comp for MJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, DannyB said: I'm thinking that if you have to offer up multiple examples from the same sport, then they're not really a comp for MJ. Well, that would be up to him. Having never seen 1 minute of live MJ, I can't have an opinion on this. I've seen plenty of example where people call LeBron the GOAT of basketball (again, I don't have an opinion on that). Edited May 29, 2020 by Hunter2_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 32 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: Well, that would be up to him. Having never seen 1 minute of live MJ, I can't have an opinion on this. I've seen plenty of example where people call LeBron the GOAT of basketball (again, I don't have an opinion on that). Yeah, I mean any individual can throw out any name they want. I'm talking near-consensus, a preponderance of voices in agreement. Another name I just thought of, as far as being a legendary worldwide immortalized icon: Bruce Lee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 1 hour ago, DannyB said: Yeah, I mean any individual can throw out any name they want. I'm talking near-consensus, a preponderance of voices in agreement. Another name I just thought of, as far as being a legendary worldwide immortalized icon: Bruce Lee? What was he, general martial artist or a kickboxer? Probably. I can only think of Federer, Don Bradman (cricket), Richie McCaw (rugby), Bolt and Phelps. I don't think many would quabble with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: What was he, general martial artist or a kickboxer? Probably. I can only think of Federer, Don Bradman (cricket), Richie McCaw (rugby), Bolt and Phelps. I don't think many would quabble with those. Yeah, I feel like I'd classify Bruce Lee as just...general martial arts. For cricket, I thought Tendulkar was also oftentimes considered the greatest? I'm not an expert though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Just now, DannyB said: Yeah, I feel like I'd classify Bruce Lee as just...general martial arts. For cricket, I thought Tendulkar was also oftentimes considered the greatest? I'm not an expert though By Indians, yeah. They live and breathe it. VERY protective. Batting average: Bradman - 99.9 (in an era with no helmets and bowlers could target head) Tendulkar - 53.8 (in an era with massive bats and protection etc) But you're right, some people do say Tendulkar. But it's homerism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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