ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

[davisblack]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29180831/ranking-2020-nfl-offseasons-worst-first-barnwell-all-32-teams#DET

 

Mostly blaming signing a bunch of Patriots, not trading down from #3 and drafting a RB in the 2nd over a position of more need.

Personally, I don't have much of an issue with signing ex Patriots at all. Sure it would be better to grow those types of players in house, but I have no problems signing players that fit this particular system well, who cares where they come from? It would have been nice to trade down in the 1st, but I kind of believe Quinn when he said there weren't any offers, and Swift was BPA on most boards, it was a fine pick.

The Lions definitely still have some holes to fill, but I don't think they did terrible, more of a middle of the road off season in my eyes.

[detroitroar]

I loved the draft. Barnwell hates the Lions. I understand skepticism or caution signing so many ex patriots but that itself isn't a reason to dislike a move.

[Sllim Pickens]

The reason I dont love signing so many former Patriots is because they maximize the value of them, then once they get paid they are over valued.  We made some decent signings but system or not, Collins hasn't succeeded outside of NE and BB.  We hope to get a similar impact but we overpaid for it.  I do think our worst signing was Vaitai though, just given the question marks about him being a full time starter and paying him like a top 10 player at his position.  

Draft wise I thought we had a pretty good draft.  I agree RB wasnt the top priority but it was a need, and the value fit the need according to Quinn and most expected Swift to go in the 1st.  So I feel the same way as I did on draft day, its a solid pick, I would have liked some others but I wont complain about it.  I would say that since most draft analysts gave us a high rating for the draft, bashing that is just being dumb.  And although we all wanted to trade back for the most part, we dont know what offers were there if any.  Given the remote style of the draft it was hard for communication and that was evident by the lack of trades during the draft.  

Overall it sounds like this guy like most in the national media just dont like or think of the Lions until the end and then just throw them in there.  I mean they had the Packers ahead of us which just seems ridiculous, especially if we are knocked for not drafting a position of need and GB neglected their biggest need in FA and the draft. 

[Lions017]

I don't think that it was the 4th worst. I wouldn't say that it was one of the best, but it wasn't among the worst. Middle of the road seems about right. 

A lot of the national media seems to be down on the Lions in general, which is probably fair. They haven't shown much of anything the last two years. A lot of people have them as a contender for the 1st overall pick next year. 

[detroitroar]

2 hours ago, Lions017 said:

I don't think that it was the 4th worst. I wouldn't say that it was one of the best, but it wasn't among the worst. Middle of the road seems about right. 

A lot of the national media seems to be down on the Lions in general, which is probably fair. They haven't shown much of anything the last two years. A lot of people have them as a contender for the 1st overall pick next year. 

Only justification for suggesting well contend for the #1 pick is if your predicting Stafford misses a lot of time.

[Karnage84]

RB was a need... anyone that watched the team last year would know that. People just look at it and say "they have Kerryon, why did they need to take another RB?". Because he can't stay healthy. You can make the argument about picking a RB that high but a lot of RB's were taken between Swift and our 3rd round pick. We took a guy who was the top guy on many boards and fringe 1st rounder. I did really like Taylor but he would have been more of a direct replacement for KJ than a complimentary back. 

I would rather that we kept Slay but it was more about a declining player wanting a large, long-term contract than Patricia running him out of town. 

I don't have an issue with signing a few Patriots. I understand Sllim's position and it's possible that we've overpaid for Bellichick's leftovers. That's going to be TBD. 

Most of the national pundits are going to dislike what the Lions do until we start winning consistently. It just is what it is. 

 

 

[Nnivolcm]

I can get on board with it being one of the worst if you take into account things that happened before the off season. 

Examples: the Fords publicly saying the regime is on the hot seat in 2020 and the Darius Slay debacle.  

[Nnivolcm]

4 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I would rather that we kept Slay but it was more about a declining player wanting a large, long-term contract than Patricia running him out of town. 

Slay was still under contract at a very reasonable price for 2020 and the franchise tag/comp pick would have been options for 2021. Slay was still playing at a high enough level to make the Pro bowl as a CB with zero pass rush. The Slay debacle was absolutely Patricia burning the bridge, and they got peanuts in return because the rest of the NFL knew it. 

[Karnage84]

12 hours ago, Nnivolcm said:

Slay was still under contract at a very reasonable price for 2020 and the franchise tag/comp pick would have been options for 2021. Slay was still playing at a high enough level to make the Pro bowl as a CB with zero pass rush. The Slay debacle was absolutely Patricia burning the bridge, and they got peanuts in return because the rest of the NFL knew it. 

Comp pick = 3rd round pick next year. We got a 3rd this year. Current picks are better than future picks but we could have used him and paired with Okudah. We'll call that a wash. 

Slay was a disgruntled employee. If you're trying to build a culture in a locker room, you want your leaders to be bought in and supportive. Not someone that is going to cause issues and division within the room. Yes, he was still under contract. It doesn't appear that he was willing to play under that contract. Slay did play well and I'm not arguing against him being a good player just because he's no longer on the team. He has been and in many ways still is. However, he is an aging player with a diminishing skillset that wanted to be paid big money. There aren't going to be a lot of teams wanting to pay top dollar for that kind of player. We were never going to get a Jalen Ramsey type of deal for Slay. 

I also don't put a ton of weight into the Pro Bowl. In many ways it is a popularity contest. I'd put more weight into the All Pro lists. Slay was not on PFF All Pro team or either of the AP's First or Second team All Pro. He did what he did without anything resembling a pass rush. I agree with you there. 

[Sllim Pickens]

32 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Comp pick = 3rd round pick next year. We got a 3rd this year. Current picks are better than future picks but we could have used him and paired with Okudah. We'll call that a wash. 

Slay was a disgruntled employee. If you're trying to build a culture in a locker room, you want your leaders to be bought in and supportive. Not someone that is going to cause issues and division within the room. Yes, he was still under contract. It doesn't appear that he was willing to play under that contract. Slay did play well and I'm not arguing against him being a good player just because he's no longer on the team. He has been and in many ways still is. However, he is an aging player with a diminishing skillset that wanted to be paid big money. There aren't going to be a lot of teams wanting to pay top dollar for that kind of player. We were never going to get a Jalen Ramsey type of deal for Slay. 

I also don't put a ton of weight into the Pro Bowl. In many ways it is a popularity contest. I'd put more weight into the All Pro lists. Slay was not on PFF All Pro team or either of the AP's First or Second team All Pro. He did what he did without anything resembling a pass rush. I agree with you there. 

Current picks are better than future picks if you ignore the fact we would have had a Pro Bowl CB for another year.  

And yes he was disgruntled, and the reason for being disgruntled is Nnivolcm's point. Our staff shouldn't have let it get to that.  I agree that once it got so bad something had to be done but they let that happen.  And because of that we only got a late third for him.  

[LionArkie]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

Comp pick = 3rd round pick next year. We got a 3rd this year. Current picks are better than future picks but we could have used him and paired with Okudah. We'll call that a wash. 

Slay was a disgruntled employee. If you're trying to build a culture in a locker room, you want your leaders to be bought in and supportive. Not someone that is going to cause issues and division within the room. Yes, he was still under contract. It doesn't appear that he was willing to play under that contract. Slay did play well and I'm not arguing against him being a good player just because he's no longer on the team. He has been and in many ways still is. However, he is an aging player with a diminishing skillset that wanted to be paid big money. There aren't going to be a lot of teams wanting to pay top dollar for that kind of player. We were never going to get a Jalen Ramsey type of deal for Slay. 

I also don't put a ton of weight into the Pro Bowl. In many ways it is a popularity contest. I'd put more weight into the All Pro lists. Slay was not on PFF All Pro team or either of the AP's First or Second team All Pro. He did what he did without anything resembling a pass rush. I agree with you there. 

I agree with you about getting rid of issues in the locker room.  However, in this instance, it sounds like Patricia was the one who initiated the issue, not Slay.  Patricia created the divide with Slay. Maybe, Slay was not mature enough to accept the apology. I don't believe Patricia was being malicious when he called Slay out and embarrassed him, but I do believe it was a very rookie coaching mistake.  The locker room issue works both ways and Patricia failed at this with our best defensive player. This off season we lost Slay and gained Trufant.  It will take a few years to see if our 3rd round pick pans out. So for me right now, this is a step backwards in the off season.

Edited May 20, 2020 by LionArkie

[Karnage84]

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Current picks are better than future picks if you ignore the fact we would have had a Pro Bowl CB for another year.  

And yes he was disgruntled, and the reason for being disgruntled is Nnivolcm's point. Our staff shouldn't have let it get to that.  I agree that once it got so bad something had to be done but they let that happen.  And because of that we only got a late third for him.  

Patricia could have handled the situation better but I understand he was just trying to set the tone of the organization. Holding your best player accountable and trying to use them as an example isn't some terrible thing. Patricia didn't even know it was an issue for (Slay) until a year later. Should he have had a better finger on the pulse of the locker room? Yes, he could have and should have.

However, it really seems to be more about the fragile ego and financial interests of Slay than some terrible atrocity that was unforgivable being committed by Patricia. 

[Sllim Pickens]

1 minute ago, Karnage84 said:

Patricia could have handled the situation better but I understand he was just trying to set the tone of the organization. Holding your best player accountable and trying to use them as an example isn't some terrible thing. Patricia didn't even know it was an issue for (Slay) until a year later. Should he have had a better finger on the pulse of the locker room? Yes, he could have and should have.

However, it really seems to be more about the fragile ego and financial interests of Slay than some terrible atrocity that was unforgivable being committed by Patricia. 

I understand both sides here, my point being as a leader of the team and as a GM, you can fully intend on trading him, you can understand that the relationship is fractured, but to let it spill out and get to the point that we only get peanuts for him is the bigger issue for this off season.  I think the relationship was done when we traded Diggs for peanuts.  But at that point Quinn needs to work with both sides to calm it down to the point it doesnt become common knowledge how bad it is and move quick on a deal before value is lost.  If that means Quinn tells his boy Patricia to swallow his pride for a few weeks and kiss his butt then you do it to help the team.  

[Karnage84]

1 hour ago, LionArkie said:

I agree with you about getting rid of issues in the locker room.  However, in this instance, it sounds like Patricia was the one who initiated the issue, not Slay.  Patricia created the divide with Slay. Maybe, Slay was not mature enough to accept the apology. I don't believe Patricia was being malicious when he called Slay out and embarrassed him, but I do believe it was a very rookie coaching mistake.  The locker room issue works both ways and Patricia failed at this with our best defensive player. This off season we lost Slay and gained Trufant.  It will take a few years to see if our 3rd round pick pans out. So for me right now, this is a step backwards in the off season.

I mean.. you're not wrong. Patricia is the one that was trying to use his best player (outside of Stafford) as an example and set a tone for the entire locker room. Slay was praising a guy that was beating him repeatedly in practice on social media. Patricia was obviously trying to stoke the competitive fires in Slay as well as get the other guys to push themselves and compete as well. Patricia had just left an organization with a winning culture and an expectation to win in the playoffs and joined one where getting into the playoffs is considered a win in itself. Sometimes the message can be lost in the delivery and as the messenger and leader, that does fall on him. Agreed - it was a rookie coaching mistake. 

Trufant and Okudah + saved cap room are at a minimum a wash for me. Depending on what we do with that cap room will really determine whether this is an outright win or not. 

[Karnage84]

3 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I understand both sides here, my point being as a leader of the team and as a GM, you can fully intend on trading him, you can understand that the relationship is fractured, but to let it spill out and get to the point that we only get peanuts for him is the bigger issue for this off season.  I think the relationship was done when we traded Diggs for peanuts.  But at that point Quinn needs to work with both sides to calm it down to the point it doesnt become common knowledge how bad it is and move quick on a deal before value is lost.  If that means Quinn tells his boy Patricia to swallow his pride for a few weeks and kiss his butt then you do it to help the team.  

Slay did a lot for the community and doesn't seem like a bad guy at all. He just seems to have a bit of an ego. In fairness, a lot of professional athletes, especially WR's and DB's tend to. 

The Diggs trade definitely made an impact and they were probably skirting around his contract extension to the point where he knew it wasn't going to happen. Not having the Diggs trade cleared with him probably showed him that he was being moved outside of a leadership position and then it is firmed up when they aren't meeting his demands for a new contract. The writing was clearly on the wall.