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2020 Green Bay Packers OL


Shanedorf

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Turner justified his contract in my eyes, and he hadn't before last Sunday.  Any guy that can fill in at starting LT, even against a subpar team, is an extremely valuable back up.  This is still the NFL and there is talent that can burn you even on bad teams if you throw a guy in there who is not ready.  I wish I liked his play more at G, but think he's more of a longer, decent feet kind of player and that suits him to play tackle.

The Vikings are depleted at pass rush as well, I believe we will see the same starting line and hope for the same results. The players have been doing a great job but the coaches are going above and beyond keeping the line playing at a high level.

We'll need some luck to be healthy at the end of the year when you need to be at your best but it's good to know we can rely on our depth to get us through some rough patches. The next level will be to bring the young guys up and turn them into starters for the future.

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On 10/26/2020 at 3:39 PM, pacman5252 said:

Elite LTs are nice but:

-He'll be 30 in the year and OL typically fall off 31/32

-He wants 20M+

-We're tight on the cap

-Outside of Philly, has any top end super bowl team paid top of market tackle money recently?

-Teams are focusing their pressure now winning up the middle now due to there being more quick passes (like Tampa did against us and the vikes before this year with double A gap blitzes). 

 

I like Bak, but there is an argument that isn't crazy for moving on from him.

It might be a case of Bak or (Jones + Linsley + King)

If you have another solution at LT then you have to consider it as you are potentially losing two players in their prime plus a key member of your line for Bak who will be on his 3rd contract has displayed some signs in the last few years of slippage and will get dinged up more as he gets older.

Having said that the recent injuries for King puts me off signing him again. If you don't want to sign him then going harder for Bak is more realistic. If we could sign J. Williams for relatively cheap to pair with Dillon then you can let Linsley, Jones and King walk.

 

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1 minute ago, mikemike778 said:

It might be a case of Bak or (Jones + Linsley + King)

I like the line of thought. I'd take it one step further.

First, Linsley is gone; he's not going to get a 3rd contract... As of now, Patrick is probably penciled as the starting OC in 2021 with Runyan at RG. That's some quality cheap replacements.

King, do the Packers really want to sign the often injured CB when looking at new contract for Jaire in 2022? That would be big contracts for both starting CBs.

Jones, do the Packers want to give a RB like Jones a 2nd contract with the recent comps for 2nd contracts for RBs like Jones?

All in all, the Packers could walk from all three of these guys regardless of what happens to  Bakh.

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On 10/26/2020 at 12:41 PM, Rodjahs12 said:

I don’t expect Bakh to be resigned unless it’s a short term deal at Tunsil money. Already looking at paying Jaire Ramsey money, I just struggle to see enough to go around long term.

We also have money that's going to get moved around one way or the other.  Preston Smith won't be back with a $16M cap hit.  They'll either extend him to lower his cap hit or they'll release him.  Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner are easy cap casualties, and you can probably chalk up Dean Lowry in there as well.

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59 minutes ago, mikemike778 said:

It might be a case of Bak or (Jones + Linsley + King)

IMO, Bakhtiari is still the choice over all three of them.  He has positional value, and is the best relative to his position as well.

 

On 10/29/2020 at 4:29 PM, Refugee said:

Turner justified his contract in my eyes, and he hadn't before last Sunday.  Any guy that can fill in at starting LT, even against a subpar team, is an extremely valuable back up.  This is still the NFL and there is talent that can burn you even on bad teams if you throw a guy in there who is not ready.  I wish I liked his play more at G, but think he's more of a longer, decent feet kind of player and that suits him to play tackle.

 I hadn't really thought about that before, and I have to agree with it.  I like Taylor at guard more.  I liked Bulaga at RT more.  I think everyone likes Bakhtiari at LT more.  But Turner has held up well at RG, RT, and now LT.  Look at many teams league wide, there are not many players that can do what Turner has done for us, just this year.  

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15 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

We also have money that's going to get moved around one way or the other.  Preston Smith won't be back with a $16M cap hit.  They'll either extend him to lower his cap hit or they'll release him.  Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner are easy cap casualties, and you can probably chalk up Dean Lowry in there as well.

Absolutely correct.  There are some contracts/players on the team making darn good coin that for one reason or another (injury, not playing to their pay grade, etc) that can easily be released.  You mentioned some already and there's more fat that could be trimmed without to much effort.

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19 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

We also have money that's going to get moved around one way or the other.  Preston Smith won't be back with a $16M cap hit.  They'll either extend him to lower his cap hit or they'll release him.  Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner are easy cap casualties, and you can probably chalk up Dean Lowry in there as well.

What order would you do those moves?  

I am looking at Kirksey nets 6 million, then Wagner at 4.25.  Those are pretty easy, IMO.  But when you get to Preston, and Dean, their dead cap is around half of their salary.  I am not sure that is the greatest move unless Rashan Gary or Kingsley Keke finish the season really strong.  We'd be eating a lot of dead cap.  Another one to look at, and this isn't going to be popular, but Davante has a 16 million cap hit but only 3.6 dead cap. 

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9 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Absolutely correct.  There are some contracts/players on the team making darn good coin that for one reason or another (injury, not playing to their pay grade, etc) that can easily be released.  You mentioned some already and there's more fat that could be trimmed without to much effort.

Thing with Kirksey is that do we even notice when he is in there vs when he is not? Maybe my expectations aren't sky high for the rookies, but I have liked watching Barnes and Martin, and they make a fraction of Kirksey's salary.  

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

We also have money that's going to get moved around one way or the other.  Preston Smith won't be back with a $16M cap hit.  They'll either extend him to lower his cap hit or they'll release him.  Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner are easy cap casualties, and you can probably chalk up Dean Lowry in there as well.

It recoups some cap space while creating another position to fill.

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7 hours ago, squire12 said:

It recoups some cap space while creating another position to fill.

Yup, another position to fill probably cheaper plus who does a better job.  No problem with that one bit and recouping salary cap in the meantime is a win win.

    

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17 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Yup, another position to fill probably cheaper plus who does a better job.  No problem with that one bit and recouping salary cap in the meantime is a win win.

    

Here is a approximate look at the 2021 depth chart based on the current players that are under contract.

Spotrac has GB at with $4.1M in cap space, Overthecap has GB at $3.2M (Pretty sure both are based on a cap of $175M)

Holes already at LT and CB.  Inserting Patrick in at C for Linsley fills that spot.  Dillon taking over at RB fills that slot.  Retaining Lazard and Barnes on their ERFA fills the WR and ILB spots and is the cheapest way to do so without cutting into the cap space that is already limited.  Retaining Chandon Sullivan on a RFA contract also makes sense

There are some player cuts that can be made that would add cap space, and subsequently create another hole to fill.  

Preston Smith adds $8M and creates a hole at the 2nd/3rd EDGE rush position
Dean Lowry adds $3.3M and creates about 500 snaps on the DL that need to be filled.  
Ricky Wagner adds $4.25M and creates a hole at RT
Billy Turner adds$3.35M and creates a hole at RG
Christian Kirksey add $6M, with Barnes, Burks and Summers on rookie deals, this is an easy one to make IMO.

 

  STARTER     ERFA RFA UFA
QB Aaron Rodgers Jordan Love   Allan Lazard Chandon Sullivan David Bahktiari
RB   AJ Dillin Patrick Taylor Krys Barnes Will Redmond Kevin King
FB       Malik Taylor Raven Greene Aaron Jones
WR Davante Adams Devin Funchess   Randy Ramsey Tyler Lancaster Corey Linsley
WR MVS EQ   Kabion Ento Tim Boyle Jamaal Williams
WR Allan Lazard     Yosh Nijman Robert Tonyan Lane Taylor
TE Robert Tonyan Josiah Deguara Jace Sternberger Willington Prevlion Parry Nickerson Tyler Ervin
LT           Montravius Adams
LG Elgton Jenkins Simon Stepaniak       Marcedes Lewis
C   Lucas Patrick        
RG Billy Turner John Runyan        
RT Rick Wagner          
             
  STARTER          
LDE Dean Lowry          
NT Kenny Clark Tyler Lancaster        
RDE Kingsley Keke          
WLB Preston Smith Jonathan Garvin        
LILB Kamal Martin Oren Burks Curtis Bolton      
RILB Christian Kirksey Krys Barnes Ty Summers      
SLB Za'Darius Smith Rashan Gary        
LCB Jaire Alexander Josh Jackson        
SS Adrian Amos          
FS Darnell Savage Vernon Scott        
RCB   Ka'dar Hollman        
Slot CB Chandon Sullivan          
             
  STARTER          
PK Mason Crosby          
P JK Scott          
H JK Scott          
PR            
KR            
LS Hunter Bradley          
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10 hours ago, squire12 said:

Here is a approximate look at the 2021 depth chart based on the current players that are under contract.

Spotrac has GB at with $4.1M in cap space, Overthecap has GB at $3.2M (Pretty sure both are based on a cap of $175M)

Holes already at LT and CB.  Inserting Patrick in at C for Linsley fills that spot.  Dillon taking over at RB fills that slot.  Retaining Lazard and Barnes on their ERFA fills the WR and ILB spots and is the cheapest way to do so without cutting into the cap space that is already limited.  Retaining Chandon Sullivan on a RFA contract also makes sense

There are some player cuts that can be made that would add cap space, and subsequently create another hole to fill.  

Preston Smith adds $8M and creates a hole at the 2nd/3rd EDGE rush position
Dean Lowry adds $3.3M and creates about 500 snaps on the DL that need to be filled.  
Ricky Wagner adds $4.25M and creates a hole at RT
Billy Turner adds$3.35M and creates a hole at RG
Christian Kirksey add $6M, with Barnes, Burks and Summers on rookie deals, this is an easy one to make IMO.

 

 

 

  STARTER     ERFA RFA UFA
QB Aaron Rodgers Jordan Love   Allan Lazard Chandon Sullivan David Bahktiari
RB   AJ Dillin Patrick Taylor Krys Barnes Will Redmond Kevin King
FB       Malik Taylor Raven Greene Aaron Jones
WR Davante Adams Devin Funchess   Randy Ramsey Tyler Lancaster Corey Linsley
WR MVS EQ   Kabion Ento Tim Boyle Jamaal Williams
WR Allan Lazard     Yosh Nijman Robert Tonyan Lane Taylor
TE Robert Tonyan Josiah Deguara Jace Sternberger Willington Prevlion Parry Nickerson Tyler Ervin
LT           Montravius Adams
LG Elgton Jenkins Simon Stepaniak       Marcedes Lewis
C   Lucas Patrick        
RG Billy Turner John Runyan        
RT Rick Wagner          
             
  STARTER          
LDE Dean Lowry          
NT Kenny Clark Tyler Lancaster        
RDE Kingsley Keke          
WLB Preston Smith Jonathan Garvin        
LILB Kamal Martin Oren Burks Curtis Bolton      
RILB Christian Kirksey Krys Barnes Ty Summers      
SLB Za'Darius Smith Rashan Gary        
LCB Jaire Alexander Josh Jackson        
SS Adrian Amos          
FS Darnell Savage Vernon Scott        
RCB   Ka'dar Hollman        
Slot CB Chandon Sullivan          
             
  STARTER          
PK Mason Crosby          
P JK Scott          
H JK Scott          
PR            
KR            
LS Hunter Bradley          

Good chart.  Pretty much every team next year is going to have serious cap problems if it's at 175 million.  The draft will become even more important where the Packers should have some extra comp picks and I do believe an excess of veteran players will be cut/made available  due to cap issues.  Who performs at what cost will be up to the Packers coaching staff/front office and I have confidence the  right decisions will be made to keep this team on a good path. 

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21 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

What order would you do those moves?  

I am looking at Kirksey nets 6 million, then Wagner at 4.25.  Those are pretty easy, IMO.  But when you get to Preston, and Dean, their dead cap is around half of their salary.  I am not sure that is the greatest move unless Rashan Gary or Kingsley Keke finish the season really strong.  We'd be eating a lot of dead cap.  Another one to look at, and this isn't going to be popular, but Davante has a 16 million cap hit but only 3.6 dead cap. 

Kirksey is an easy cut.

4.25 for Wagner though is pretty cheap all things considered. In a tag and trade Bak scenario, you could go into a season with Wag as a starter and a top 64 draft pick and feel fine/have a long term plan/save 15-17 mill on the cap (assuming Bak runs 20-22).

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On 10/31/2020 at 12:34 PM, squire12 said:

It recoups some cap space while creating another position to fill.

Kirksey isn't set to be a starter next year IMO.  Wagner isn't if they re-sign Bakh.  Lowry is the only "hole" they're filling, and I'd argue they need to replace him anyway.

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