2020 Green Bay Packers OL

[Zycho32]

My observations:

-It's surprisingly easy to be rated as a Top 5 OL Unit; you just have to be around the top of the league in QB Sacks allowed. That's really all it takes; Every time this OL unit has ever been labeled as Elite, it's always because of how rarely Rodgers got sacked, even when they lacked the punch in the trenches.

-Bak is Bak, and that's excellent. Well, somewhat. Now he's got to prove he can come back to his prior level of play, and that's never a given, especially with injuries.

-Jenkins was one heck of a find, ultimately. I had thought he'd be an excellent glue guy/6th OL if he couldn't start on Day One, but he totally proved he belonged at LG, and showcased his versatility at C and LT. He's already the second best player on the line behind Bak.

-Linsley's perhaps the third best(depending on how one views Turner) of the Line, but if I'm honest, I tend to think of him as just kind of being there. That's more a function of his position, which doesn't maul lineman at the line but assists others unless there's an NT sitting right on top of them, so good centers tend to dodge the spotlight. I have to imagine his block-calling is still high quality, though his back is a cause for concern with a payday coming up.

-Turner's also been a pleasant surprise, alternating between RT and RG at times and even taking over at LT once Bak went down. He's nowhere near elite at LT, but you're not finding an elite replacement LT either, so it is what it is. He essentially gives the line a second glue guy behind Jenkins, meaning the unit as a whole can be more adept than most at overcoming injuries. It's a good quality to have.

-I can't fault Wagner's performance this year; at worst he's been 90% of what Bulauga offered, which is a relatively acceptable downgrade given the price tag. He's someone worth keeping, as long as the price tag doesn't get too step, but even then there's Turner.

-I tend to view Lane Taylor and Lucas Patrick in the same perspective; highly upgradeable. Not that upgrading either player is easy or even possible; it's just that both guys are very much beatable and don't offer too much in positives to make up for their comparative mortality in the trenches. Replacing both of them should be somewhere on the priority list(though not ahead of shoring up the DL and maybe seeking a #2 WR).

-I say replace both Taylor and Patrick because I don't think the team will resign Linsley, and rather than try to draft a center, they'll likely slot Jenkins into the role, so drafting good guards seems paramount(though I wouldn't say no to a massively improved Jon Runyan either). I could also probably take a 1st/2nd Round Tackle and move Turner back to RG though I think Turner's better suited for RT personally.

[coachbuns]

2 hours ago, Zycho32 said:

My observations:

-It's surprisingly easy to be rated as a Top 5 OL Unit; you just have to be around the top of the league in QB Sacks allowed. That's really all it takes; Every time this OL unit has ever been labeled as Elite, it's always because of how rarely Rodgers got sacked, even when they lacked the punch in the trenches.

-Bak is Bak, and that's excellent. Well, somewhat. Now he's got to prove he can come back to his prior level of play, and that's never a given, especially with injuries.

-Jenkins was one heck of a find, ultimately. I had thought he'd be an excellent glue guy/6th OL if he couldn't start on Day One, but he totally proved he belonged at LG, and showcased his versatility at C and LT. He's already the second best player on the line behind Bak.

-Linsley's perhaps the third best(depending on how one views Turner) of the Line, but if I'm honest, I tend to think of him as just kind of being there. That's more a function of his position, which doesn't maul lineman at the line but assists others unless there's an NT sitting right on top of them, so good centers tend to dodge the spotlight. I have to imagine his block-calling is still high quality, though his back is a cause for concern with a payday coming up.

-Turner's also been a pleasant surprise, alternating between RT and RG at times and even taking over at LT once Bak went down. He's nowhere near elite at LT, but you're not finding an elite replacement LT either, so it is what it is. He essentially gives the line a second glue guy behind Jenkins, meaning the unit as a whole can be more adept than most at overcoming injuries. It's a good quality to have.

-I can't fault Wagner's performance this year; at worst he's been 90% of what Bulauga offered, which is a relatively acceptable downgrade given the price tag. He's someone worth keeping, as long as the price tag doesn't get too step, but even then there's Turner.

-I tend to view Lane Taylor and Lucas Patrick in the same perspective; highly upgradeable. Not that upgrading either player is easy or even possible; it's just that both guys are very much beatable and don't offer too much in positives to make up for their comparative mortality in the trenches. Replacing both of them should be somewhere on the priority list(though not ahead of shoring up the DL and maybe seeking a #2 WR).

-I say replace both Taylor and Patrick because I don't think the team will resign Linsley, and rather than try to draft a center, they'll likely slot Jenkins into the role, so drafting good guards seems paramount(though I wouldn't say no to a massively improved Jon Runyan either). I could also probably take a 1st/2nd Round Tackle and move Turner back to RG though I think Turner's better suited for RT personally.

Rodgers isn't getting any younger and a strong OL is necessary.  Replacing both guards, moving your best guard to center with your starting LT coming back from serious injury is a lot of movement.  Drafting an OT is certainly possible with a higher pick but that's a lot of replacing for an older qb.

[Pugger]

2 hours ago, Zycho32 said:

My observations:

-It's surprisingly easy to be rated as a Top 5 OL Unit; you just have to be around the top of the league in QB Sacks allowed. That's really all it takes; Every time this OL unit has ever been labeled as Elite, it's always because of how rarely Rodgers got sacked, even when they lacked the punch in the trenches.

-Bak is Bak, and that's excellent. Well, somewhat. Now he's got to prove he can come back to his prior level of play, and that's never a given, especially with injuries.

-Jenkins was one heck of a find, ultimately. I had thought he'd be an excellent glue guy/6th OL if he couldn't start on Day One, but he totally proved he belonged at LG, and showcased his versatility at C and LT. He's already the second best player on the line behind Bak.

-Linsley's perhaps the third best(depending on how one views Turner) of the Line, but if I'm honest, I tend to think of him as just kind of being there. That's more a function of his position, which doesn't maul lineman at the line but assists others unless there's an NT sitting right on top of them, so good centers tend to dodge the spotlight. I have to imagine his block-calling is still high quality, though his back is a cause for concern with a payday coming up.

-Turner's also been a pleasant surprise, alternating between RT and RG at times and even taking over at LT once Bak went down. He's nowhere near elite at LT, but you're not finding an elite replacement LT either, so it is what it is. He essentially gives the line a second glue guy behind Jenkins, meaning the unit as a whole can be more adept than most at overcoming injuries. It's a good quality to have.

-I can't fault Wagner's performance this year; at worst he's been 90% of what Bulauga offered, which is a relatively acceptable downgrade given the price tag. He's someone worth keeping, as long as the price tag doesn't get too step, but even then there's Turner.

-I tend to view Lane Taylor and Lucas Patrick in the same perspective; highly upgradeable. Not that upgrading either player is easy or even possible; it's just that both guys are very much beatable and don't offer too much in positives to make up for their comparative mortality in the trenches. Replacing both of them should be somewhere on the priority list(though not ahead of shoring up the DL and maybe seeking a #2 WR).

-I say replace both Taylor and Patrick because I don't think the team will resign Linsley, and rather than try to draft a center, they'll likely slot Jenkins into the role, so drafting good guards seems paramount(though I wouldn't say no to a massively improved Jon Runyan either). I could also probably take a 1st/2nd Round Tackle and move Turner back to RG though I think Turner's better suited for RT personally.

We also have Simon Stepaniak in the wings.  From what I understand he is as strong as an ox and could prove to the the mauler some want at OG.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

9 hours ago, Refugee said:

Our line was playing great at the end of the year and the fact that Patrick and Wagner were not our preferred starters but acquitted themselves nicely is a testament to the depth.  On top of that, your all pro LT goes down and they can still keep the wheels on the road, you can’t ignore what a strength they have been all season, in all types of configurations. 

I wish they played a stronger game on Sunday but they did not crumble under that front.  I’m not ignoring that they had collapses at critical times but the game as a whole was a battle against one of the best defenses in the League. 
 

Next year will be another test but I’m happy that we have some young talent and strong coaching. I doubt they bring Linsley back and that’s a shame but the tighter cap will force some decisions. We’ve got to stay strong in the trenches. 

Couldn't agree with you more. Even without Linsley, I really like what we're bringing next year at IOL. The greta need is at T. Hopefully the draft will shore this area up. I love the flexibility Patrick, Turner, and Jenkins gives us along the line. We just need one solid T to make this group a strength again in 2021. 

[Leader]

Tampa worked our OL twice this year. Systematically took it apart - twice.

San Fran did it twice last year.

Granted - in the Tampa games, injuries / backups / fill ins played more of a role than perhaps we'd have liked. Perhaps we didnt alter our gameplans to accomodate the OTs. Dont know - cant say - but *clearly* something has to change going forward - or I'm gonna have to keep saying "I dont want to play Tampa."

The blueprint is out on us. We have to re-write it. Somehow/someway.

[Smidgeon]

20 minutes ago, Leader said:

Tampa worked our OL twice this year. Systematically took it apart - twice.

San Fran did it twice last year.

Granted - in the Tampa games, injuries / backups / fill ins played more of a role than perhaps we'd have liked. Perhaps we didnt alter our gameplans to accomodate the OTs. Dont know - cant say - but *clearly* something has to change going forward - or I'm gonna have to keep saying "I dont want to play Tampa."

The blueprint is out on us. We have to re-write it. Somehow/someway.

Well, the blueprint was out on our D last year:  run and run some more.  This year down the stretch, the opposing run games were kept in check.  The Bucs in the first game and the Vikings in the second game were the only two teams to put over 150 on the ground against us (the Saints short passing game probably counts too)--and that Vikings game is probably the only one where we "just couldn't stop the run". 

Besides the Titans game, the last game with over 125 rush yards allowed was the Colts.  So basically, on defense, they had an obvious script and fixed it.

As an aside, the pass D also got better down the stretch. The Packers allowed five passers to throw for more than 250 yards (and none over 300)--3 were in the first 8 games, 1 in the last 8 games, and 1 in the playoffs.  Except for the Colts game (the only opponent to get more than 400 yards against the D all year), the defense was consistent and improving all year.

So what does this mean for the offense?  Who knows with the salary cap, expiring contracts, and the multi-All Pro LT coming off a significant injury.  BUT, there might not be much they have to do. 

• Dillon will be a year better
• The line should progress overall
• Deguara will be coming back--not a game changer but another wrinkle
• MVS will continue to develop--hopefully EQ finds a role

You could argue there's a blueprint, but the reality is that few defenses this year were able to capitalize on it.  The Bucs (the first game) and the Panthers were the only ones to keep the Packers under 300 yards.

To your point though, the two poorest showings by the run game were the Bucs in the playoffs and the Colts.  An uninjured line in the playoffs might have been the panacea for that though.

[Leader]

1 minute ago, Smidgeon said:

You could argue there's a blueprint, but the reality is that few defenses this year were able to capitalize on it.  The Bucs (the first game) and the Panthers were the only ones to keep the Packers under 300 yards. To your point though, the two poorest showings by the run game were the Bucs in the playoffs and the Colts.  An uninjured line in the playoffs might have been the panacea for that though.

Long post that gets down to the point -

Few defenses are as capable with the combination of scheme and personnel to capitalize on it. 

Tampa is. A healthy San Fran is.
Carolina, Indy....challenging, but I wont put them in the same class.

69 is certainly a wildcard. We lost him in game 1 versus Tampa and he was out entirely on Sunday. Got it - but there's nothing substantial allowing me to say his presence would have had an appreciable effect. I can think so....hope so....but till it happens on the field.....its conjecture.

Turner at LT? Probably (read: definitely) not a long term solution....and certainly not when we're up against the cream of the cream in defensive fronts. Maybe - maybe - New Orleans can give that front a run for the money.........maybe - but I wanted to play New Orleans far more than I wanted a repeat of Week 6.

Now Sunday certainly wasnt that - the game was much closer - with a break (read: no flag) and some execution on offense late - the game was there to be won - but IMO it was the Tampa D that won that game - plus some boneheaded / inexcusable play by our defense.

[MaryTsraining3s]

From another thread: I would say my biggest and perhaps only complaint about MLF would be that he didn't start working in Elgton Jenkins at LT when Bahktiari went down. I know that's kind of out of Left Field, but anybody who thought Ricky Wagner and Billy Turner win you a Super Bowl is a little to blindly optimistic. Did they play fine vs LA/Chi? Sure, but that first TB game should have showed you what you could be dealing with from a pressure stand point, and we sure paid the price. There's a reason Edge rusher is a top 4 important position: it can destroy game plans. Billy Turner surprised the heck out of me how well he did play, but there's a reason LT's get paid the big bucks compared to RT, and his limitations just were too much to overcome, along with Ricky just being an old decript fill in. Do I understand not wanting to weaken another position? Eh, not really. You have something special in Jenkins, and you have a hole in the second most important position on the line (RT). Billy Turner is not your future there, go find out if Jenkins can in fact be a future tackle, and I have reason to believe he can be and would've held up better than either of those two did based on the little he's shown at tackle earlier this year and his all around versatillity. Maybe they didn't like what he showed earlier, but I would bet they just had too much faith in those other two.

[AlexGreen#20]

6 hours ago, Leader said:

Tampa worked our OL twice this year. Systematically took it apart - twice.

San Fran did it twice last year.

Granted - in the Tampa games, injuries / backups / fill ins played more of a role than perhaps we'd have liked. Perhaps we didnt alter our gameplans to accomodate the OTs. Dont know - cant say - but *clearly* something has to change going forward - or I'm gonna have to keep saying "I dont want to play Tampa."

The blueprint is out on us. We have to re-write it. Somehow/someway.

That's what elite defensive lines do to strong offensive lines. They level the playing field. You're not going to dominate those groups. The other guys on the offense have to win their matchups. 

[Leader]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

That's what elite defensive lines do to strong offensive lines. They level the playing field. You're not going to dominate those groups. The other guys on the offense have to win their matchups. 

Agree. My position from the beginning is these are known issues and WE have to change the equation. Be it thru scheme change, personnel decisions or whatever. Somehow, some way, we have to switch things up.

Bowles taking a HC job somewhere *may* lessen their Ds effectiveness - but that cant be counted on.

We can look at the score and *think* progress is being made - certainly over Wk 6 - and minus what I consider to be the defensive breakdowns - I think the game was there for us.

Odd - but (trying to be as unbiased as I can be.....) I still consider us the better overall team.  I think we're better than NOLA as well - but its tighter with Tampa. 

Which means squat. Its the scoreboard that matters. We're at home.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, Leader said:

Agree. My position from the beginning is these are known issues and WE have to change the equation. Be it thru scheme change, personnel decisions or whatever. Somehow, some way, we have to switch things up.

Bowles taking a HC job somewhere *may* lessen their Ds effectiveness - but that cant be counted on.

We can look at the score and *think* progress is being made - certainly over Wk 6 - and minus what I consider to be the defensive breakdowns - I think the game was there for us.

Odd - but (trying to be as unbiased as I can be.....) I still consider us the better overall team.  I think we're better than NOLA as well - but its tighter with Tampa. 

Which means squat. Its the scoreboard that matters. We're at home.

 

We really weren't a better team, especially without Bakhtiari. Point differential was very even and they carried an edge in DVOA. 

[craig]

The packers.com guys said that in OTA, it looked like the OL was setting up as:

Jenkins-Runyan-Myers-Patrick-Turner.  

That seems perfectly plausible and rational to me.  That has Jenkins as the only guy really out of position, and the other four are all at their preferred and most familiar positions.