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Shanedorf

2020 Green Bay Packers OL

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Turner isn't above average, and I hope somebody develops into being better.  But if Turner is the worst guy on your O-line, or the most problematic starter on offense, you'll have a chance to have a top-10 O-line and a top-10 offense.  

Alex, excellent point that a 2nd year playing regularly at the same position in the same system isn't going to hurt.  

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Yeah, Billy Turner was probably in the 30-40 range of starting guards in the NFL last season. 

Seeing people act like he was bad is just horrific and embarrassing. 

Glasgow allowed 0 sacks, 2 penalties, 74.1 PFF score. 
Daniels allowed 1 sack and had 3 penalties, 69.9 PFF score.
Jenkins allowed 0 sacks, had 8 penalties.  69.2 PFF score.
Dahl allowed 3 sacks, 2 penalties.  64.9 score.
Turner allowed 6 sacks and had 2 penalties, 64.8 score
Elflein allowed 6 sacks and had 8 penalties, 64.8 score.
Josh Kline allowed 2 sacks with 3 penalties, 61.6 PFF score.
Coward allowed 1 sack, 4 penalties.  51.7 score.

A tenth of a point separates Turner from top half in the division.  That same kind of score would be consistent with the rest of the NFL.  Overpaid?  Maybe, but that's the only way to get free agents.  He is certainly better than a lot of fans here seem to think he is, and you could do a lot, lot, lot worse. 

Deiter - 6 sacks, 42.5
Calhoun - 2 sacks, 44.2
Corbett - 1, 51.8
Blythe - 2, 50.3

If I kept going, I could very, very, very easily find 33 guards worse than Turner.  So why are we complaining about paying the 30th best guard in the NFL 20th guard money when it took free agency to acquire him and after this year we can get rid of him for a 4.5 cap hit or keep him at 8 million in cap hit when by 2021, 8 million in cap hit will probably be closer to 30th in guard money?
 

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Just now, craig said:

Turner isn't above average,

I'd be willing to bet that yes he is with the caveat that the only way we can test this is through PFF scores, which for offensive line play certainly is not terrible.  If you look at the post directly above this, you'll see that 7 guards on only 5 other teams are clearly worse than Turner. 

So if above average is being the 31st best guard in the NFL, I say Turner is, in fact, above average. 

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15 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I'd be willing to bet that yes he is with the caveat that the only way we can test this is through PFF scores, which for offensive line play certainly is not terrible.  If you look at the post directly above this, you'll see that 7 guards on only 5 other teams are clearly worse than Turner. 

So if above average is being the 31st best guard in the NFL, I say Turner is, in fact, above average.

ehhh, 31 might technically be above average in the mathematical sense, but not in the way people here really use it. "Average" probably refers to guys in the 24-40 range or so. if the 51st percentile is "above average", then you really can't refer to anyone as being average.

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22 minutes ago, Cakeshoppe said:

ehhh, 31 might technically be above average in the mathematical sense, but not in the way people here really use it. "Average" probably refers to guys in the 24-40 range or so. if the 51st percentile is "above average", then you really can't refer to anyone as being average.

You’re average.

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10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

You’re average.

most accurate post on this site

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49 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

You’re average.

Reminds me of this old one:

"Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are dumber than that"

George Carlin

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Heh heh, that's a great line!  :):)

"Average" among starters is different from "average" if all of the bench players are included.  

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2 hours ago, craig said:

Heh heh, that's a great line!  :):)

"Average" among starters is different from "average" if all of the bench players are included.  

The players I listed were all starters.  There are very bad starters out there.  We’re lucky to have Turner because it could be a lot worse.

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10 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I think you've got to give Turner another year before writing him off. He was the worst OL we played a ton of snaps last year, but it's not like the worst guy in THAT group is necessarily bad. There are a ton of teams that would love to start Turner.

I wouldn't be shocked if he was significantly better in pass protection this year. He wasn't getting out physicaled, he was predominantly getting beat on his reads. That's an issue that's been hanging around his entire career, but a second year in a system sure as hell isn't going to hurt.

Oh it could definitely be worse, like Byron Bell the year before.  He's just frustrating as hell to watch IMO.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, Billy Turner was probably in the 30-40 range of starting guards in the NFL last season. 

Seeing people act like he was bad is just horrific and embarrassing. 

Glasgow allowed 0 sacks, 2 penalties, 74.1 PFF score. 
Daniels allowed 1 sack and had 3 penalties, 69.9 PFF score.
Jenkins allowed 0 sacks, had 8 penalties.  69.2 PFF score.
Dahl allowed 3 sacks, 2 penalties.  64.9 score.
Turner allowed 6 sacks and had 2 penalties, 64.8 score
Elflein allowed 6 sacks and had 8 penalties, 64.8 score.
Josh Kline allowed 2 sacks with 3 penalties, 61.6 PFF score.
Coward allowed 1 sack, 4 penalties.  51.7 score.

A tenth of a point separates Turner from top half in the division.  That same kind of score would be consistent with the rest of the NFL.  Overpaid?  Maybe, but that's the only way to get free agents.  He is certainly better than a lot of fans here seem to think he is, and you could do a lot, lot, lot worse. 

Deiter - 6 sacks, 42.5
Calhoun - 2 sacks, 44.2
Corbett - 1, 51.8
Blythe - 2, 50.3

If I kept going, I could very, very, very easily find 33 guards worse than Turner.  So why are we complaining about paying the 30th best guard in the NFL 20th guard money when it took free agency to acquire him and after this year we can get rid of him for a 4.5 cap hit or keep him at 8 million in cap hit when by 2021, 8 million in cap hit will probably be closer to 30th in guard money?
 

I don't think he's bad, nor was I trying to imply that he's bad, it's just that I think he could be a hell of a lot better if he actually wanted to be.

Edited by MaximusGluteus

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Turner is fine, at least on this line.  He has clear weaknesses and clear strengths.  He's not a great guard but his bad plays are noticed more because he's the only member of last year's OL that would get beat clean.  I really don't love his feet and he still plays with his weight too far forward, but he's a good athlete with a great frame who'll get after you.  I worry a little with Bulaga gone, but my guess is he'll still be at least OK.  

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On 5/19/2020 at 8:29 AM, Pugger said:

He has been a steady performer for 7 seasons with 2 teams.  He isn't Bulaga but you don't start 102 games in during this time if you are a turn style.

I think most wound agree but Marshall Newhouse is still a starter at times in this league. Lets hope Ricky doesn't fall flat on his face or we'll be moving pieces around.

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That's a massive human at 6 ' 7 and 324

but I don't know if he can play football good

 

ba1f58ab-7f71-406b-8b56-7ea677d5e349-GPG

 

x7ecxbbkz8tjaggfw7uw

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9 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

That's a massive human at 6 ' 7 and 324

but I don't know if he can play football good

 

ba1f58ab-7f71-406b-8b56-7ea677d5e349-GPG

 

x7ecxbbkz8tjaggfw7uw

Forgot about this dude.

I remember liking him as an UDFA last year. Think he has a RAS of 9.8+.

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