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The Jets and Jamal Adams

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Posted (edited)
On 5/23/2020 at 5:14 PM, NJC33 said:

So ignore each players rookie season, the statistical comparison still holds.. 

The "dumb game" you're referring to was started by someone who chose to just isolate INT's. Obviously statistics don't tell all, but if you're going to play that game at least do it objectively. It's funny because Jamal's style of play is most comparable to Troy of all people.

Actually the dumb game was started by someone with the audacity  to compare Adam's to 2 HOF, when he's not on thier level, period! Just because he might be a top 5 safety in today's NFL doesn't mean he's on Par with 2 potential Top 5 Safeties of Alltime.

Take the green shades off, thanks. If anything he's being overrated because of the lack of Adequate Safety play in the NFL.

Edited by Nabbs4u
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11 hours ago, dcat said:

Rumor is he wants a lot more than just being the highest paid safety.  More like one of the top paid defensive players in the league.  But I can not corroborate.  He's already compared his self-proclaimed value to Brady, Aaron Donald and other superstars who don't play in the a position with the league's lowest positional value.  He is out of his skull.  He's a narcissist.  He's not a leader in any way.  

It doesn't hurt his position that the Redskins drastically overpaid for Landon Collins last off-season, who, while an above average box safety, doesn't come close to the level of Jamal Adams.  With the Collins contract in his negotiating ploy, there isn't any reason for him to not get paid top defender money.  

Not that I would give a strong safety that kind of money.  Just acknowledging that he does have that point.  

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6 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

Almost every team in recent memory that has won the super bowl has had pro bowl caliber safety play.

Last year the Chiefs have Mathieu.

Patriots have had McCourty for all of their recent super bowl wins. 

The Eagles had Malcolm Jenkins 

The Broncos had TJ Ward who was a pro bowler around that time I believe. 

The Seahawks had 2, though obviously different type of players in Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. 

The Ravens had Ed Reed, even at his advanced age was still one of the better safeties in the game. 

The Giants had Antrel Rolle. 

The Packers had Nick Collins. 

The Steelers obviously had Troy P. 

Some say it's a devalued position, and maybe, but I personally think it's an incredibly underrated position in terms of how important it is. A great safety by its might not be as important as an edge rusher, but a safety that can play over the top, play like a mini LB in run support, cover backs and tight ends, and make some plays in the backfield, makes a WORLD of difference in terms of turning an average defense into a good one and a good defense into an elite one. And obviously those guys vary from just how talented they were, but they range from pro bowl caliber that year or close to it for the most part, to downright elite, all timers. And those teams certainly had other great players and some had positions that were more important or played a bigger part in the team success, but I think great safety play is a key to fielding a defense capable of being great and winning big games in todays era where there's more passing, less base defense, and more and more athletic guys at running back, WR, and TE. 

Adams to me seems like the easiest selection to the next group of young guys that turn into downright elite safeties. Every time I watch him I come away impressed. And I don't think pure coverage is his strongest attribute, but I haven't seen him and thought he was bad. And he brings so much more to the table, he's still incredibly young, and he seems determined to be great and a hard worker. I wouldn't just give him away. Now if he is asking to be paid in the ball park of elite pass rushers or something, I wouldn't pay that and if he won't budge I would trade him for a first and a day two pick because you would be lucky to get that (if everyone knows he won't budge on his contract demands). But if he just wants a contract making him the highest paid Safety, I'd feel comfortable paying that. I would probably try my best to play some hard ball and get him to play out this upcoming season with all the uncertainty around everything with Covid. Only the team and Adams knows if that's possible or if holding off a year will result in a holdout or a fractured locker room. History says it likely wont though and he would cave sooner than later, and be happy to take the contact next offseason. He just doesn't have a ton of leverage with how many years he has left and the franchise tag being around. But there are exceptions where it's turned ugly. Hard to way the risk/benefits to holding off paying him for another season. 

This is a great post. 

I absolutely agree with the need to cover backs and TEs.  Adams is very good at that.  The problem is that many current strong safeties are limited and just "in the box" safeties.  Landon Collins really speaks to me on that.  

The route tree that many running backs run now, as well as how TE's are utilized, really require more athletic ability than a lot of strong safeties possess right now.  

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1 minute ago, naptownskinsfan said:

This is a great post. 

I absolutely agree with the need to cover backs and TEs.  Adams is very good at that.  The problem is that many current strong safeties are limited and just "in the box" safeties.  Landon Collins really speaks to me on that.  

The route tree that many running backs run now, as well as how TE's are utilized, really require more athletic ability than a lot of strong safeties possess right now.  

I definitely agree. Like I said I personally believe that safety is a very underrated, key piece to any good to great defense, but I don't value pure in the box more traditional strong safeties that much. A guy can be at his best playing in the box and functioning as a small LB, but they still need to be at least solid at covering backs and tight ends for me to consider giving them a huge deal. It's just too easy to exploit a guy who's only real value is playing safety with the coverage of a traditional LB. 

Obviously it's rare to find any guy that can play as a total stud in the box and have unlimited range and play at a high level as a single high safety, so you don't need to be that, even some of the elite guys can't do both of those things at the same, elite level. But you can't be a total liability in coverage to deserve to be paid like the top safety in the game. 

I tend to value coverage and range in my safeties in todays game most, but I'll definitely take a guy that can dominate in the box and can get me tackles in the backfield and sacks if he's at least solid in coverage. Particularly if he's a total tone setter, vocal guy capable of being the leader of my defense. 

Adams to me is at his best playing in the box, downhill, and attacking... He's an elite safety at that IMO, but I haven't watched him and felt like he was a liability or easily picked on if asked to cover backs and tight ends and cover ground over the top. Collins is a good comparison in terms of ability in the box but not nearly as fluid in coverage, and that's a huge difference in value and what they should be paid. Even if Adams isn't as elite in coverage, he's still very good, and finding that is super rare and why I would be willing to pay him the money of top safety in the NFL and why it would be hard for me to pull the trigger on trading him for less than a fantastic offer. A good NFL defensive coordinator shouldn't have a hard time putting out a defense capable of getting the most out of a guy like Adam's skill set. Assuming the talent on the rest of the defense isn't totally bare, but that's every position in football. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

Actually the dumb game was started by someone with the audacity to compare Adam's to 2 HOF, when hes not on thier level, period! Just because he might be a top 5 safety in today's NFL doesn't mean he's on Par with 2 potential Top 5 Safeties of Alltime.

Take the green shades off, thanks. If anything he's being overrated because of the lack of Adequate Safety play in the NFL.

"Might be a top 5 safety in today's NFL" lol.. Someone's triggered! 

Lack of adequate safety play? Now you're just throwing stuff out there, eh? The audacity! 

Let's bookmark it, how many more All-Pro teams does he need to make before you're ready to start watching him play?

Edited by NJC33
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It's also easy to see why Adams would feel like he deserves considerably more than someone like Collins though. Yeah they are both safeties and both best skill is probably their ability to dominate in the box. But Adams brings considerably more to the table in coverage IMO. He isn't a turnover machine but Collins really only had that one year where he had a handful of picks. 

If Collins is worth 14 and has a similar skill set but not quite as elite in the box, and a step or two below in coverage as well I can see why someone of Adams skill set would want more than a million or two more, but the problem is, he isn't on the free agent market. He wants a new deal while still having years left, even if he gets it in that case you are usually going to be sacrificing a few million bucks of what you could get on the market for the immediate long term security. 

And the NFL hasn't totally set separate markets for more pure FS ball hawks and guys who play their best in the box but aren't a liability in coverage. It helps the more you can cover, but unless you are downright elite at it in addition to what you can do in the box it's hard to argue just where the value is to either of those situations. Just the nature of having so few safeties that can cover and play like a LB in the box. 

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Posted (edited)

@Mr Raider you’ve kind of nailed it in your posts. Because Jamal is elite in the box and his splash plays come behind the line of scrimmage, people tend to gloss over that he’s also good at covering TEs.

I agree that being able to cover TE is under appreciated. It’s the same with slot corner. Those guys don’t get paid as much as boundary corners. Being cheap at slot corner is all fun and games until New England is torching you left and right with 5’10” slot receivers.

I still think something like 15-16 is the right number. But we will see. The way it sounds, I don’t think a deal gets done this year. And I don’t see a team meeting the Jets trade demands. So this will likely continue for at least another year. 

Edited by SDotNova
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12 hours ago, SDotNova said:

@Mr Raider you’ve kind of nailed it in your posts. Because Jamal is elite in the box and his splash plays come behind the line of scrimmage, people tend to gloss over that he’s also good at covering TEs.

I agree that being able to cover TE is under appreciated. It’s the same with slot corner. Those guys don’t get paid as much as boundary corners. Being cheap at slot corner is all fun and games until New England is torching you left and right with 5’10” slot receivers.

I still think something like 15-16 is the right number. But we will see. The way it sounds, I don’t think a deal gets done this year. And I don’t see a team meeting the Jets trade demands. So this will likely continue for at least another year. 

Another good post in this thread.  Only thing I disagree with are slot corners being underappreciated.  Most slot corners are now playing well over 50% of the snaps for their teams, and are beginning to get paid accordingly. Kendall Fuller just got 4 years, $40 million to sign with the Redskins, and the Colts signed Kenny Moore to an extension last summer of 4 years, $30-36 million.  Teams are recognizing that value and are willing to pay, and also keep the players they are developing

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Jamal Adams is a stud and you’d be hard-pressed to find a safety better than him right now, but let’s pump the brakes on the HOF talk. I think to compare him to Reed and Polamalu is crazy. Those dudes were on another level. Seemed like they were cheating and knew the plays. Jamal Adams is just rock solid in every area, but in terms of splash plays, he’s not close to the other two. Those two seemingly made a spectacular highlight reel play 4-5x a game.

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2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Jamal Adams is a stud and you’d be hard-pressed to find a safety better than him right now, but let’s pump the brakes on the HOF talk. I think to compare him to Reed and Polamalu is crazy. Those dudes were on another level. Seemed like they were cheating and knew the plays. Jamal Adams is just rock solid in every area, but in terms of splash plays, he’s not close to the other two. Those two seemingly made a spectacular highlight reel play 4-5x a game.

Comparing them is obviously hard to do because 1 guys only has 3 seasons under his belt but if he puts together a 10 year career playing like this he'll be in the conversation.  That's why you got laughed at for proposing Adams for Yannick.  It's awful to suggest it.

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21 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

Actually the dumb game was started by someone wuth the audacity  to compare Adam's to 2 HOF, when hes not on thier level, period! Just because he might be a top 5 safety in today's NFL doesn't mean he's on Par with 2 potential Top 5 Safeties of Alltime.

Take the green shades off, thanks. If anything he's being overrated because of the lack of Adequate Safety play in the NFL.

So much wrong with this post.

Obviously Adams has his whole career to go but open your eyes.  The guy is special.  You'd be hard pressed to find 10 defensive players in the entire league more impactful than Adams.  He'd have a good shot at being in the top 5 and you think he's a fringe top 5 safety.  Lol ok.

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6 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Comparing them is obviously hard to do because 1 guys only has 3 seasons under his belt but if he puts together a 10 year career playing like this he'll be in the conversation.  That's why you got laughed at for proposing Adams for Yannick.  It's awful to suggest it.

If Ngakoue had kept up the numbers he set for himself in 2017, it would be a fair 1-for-1 swap.  As it is, he has three seasons without double digit sacks and wants to get paid like he's the top pass-rusher, which he clearly isn't.  I definitely wouldn't consider that trade as it stands today.  

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15 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Comparing them is obviously hard to do because 1 guys only has 3 seasons under his belt but if he puts together a 10 year career playing like this he'll be in the conversation.  That's why you got laughed at for proposing Adams for Yannick.  It's awful to suggest it.

Ok then just lose him when his contract is up. That sounds much better. 

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20 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Comparing them is obviously hard to do because 1 guys only has 3 seasons under his belt but if he puts together a 10 year career playing like this he'll be in the conversation.  That's why you got laughed at for proposing Adams for Yannick.  It's awful to suggest it.

Is it tho? 

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5 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

So much wrong with this post.

Obviously Adams has his whole career to go but open your eyes.  The guy is special.  You'd be hard pressed to find 10 defensive players in the entire league more impactful than Adams.  He'd have a good shot at being in the top 5 and you think he's a fringe top 5 safety.  Lol ok.

Point was supposed to be, him being a Top 5 Safety in today's NFL doesn't remotely put him in the conversation in the slightest with 2 of possibly Top 5 Safeties of All time. Reed is for sure, Troy debatable! But let's get caught up with the "might" in that sentence by all means.

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