Rivera: It takes 3-5 years to build a culture

[naptownskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

TBD. On paper it doesn’t look like we have the talent bc most of our team is young and unproven, but that doesn’t mean that we actually don’t have the talent to have a turn around with the core of players we have right now.

We don't have the talent to turn things around that quickly.  If you can't see that, then I'm not sure what else we can do in this thread.  Throwing McVay around and thinking/expecting we could go 11-5 and 13-3 in two years under Rivera is a fool's errand, and setting up yourself and other fans for way too high expectations. 

[turtle28]

Just now, naptownskinsfan said:

We don't have the talent to turn things around that quickly.  If you can't see that, then I'm not sure what else we can do in this thread.  Throwing McVay around and thinking/expecting we could go 11-5 and 13-3 in two years under Rivera is a fool's errand, and setting up yourself and other fans for way too high expectations. 

Well I don’t expect those kind of records, but I think people are sleeping on some of our young talent. 

[naptownskinsfan]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

Well I don’t expect those kind of records, but I think people are sleeping on some of our young talent. 

The person I responded to said McVay turned it around in one season, and it's a completely different animal comparing the Rams he took over, and the Redskins that Rivera took over, both from a talent and culture perspective.  

[naptownskinsfan]

NFSW language- Click here for tweet

This is the kind of culture stuff that is going to change, but that change takes time.  New leaders have to come out and establish themselves.  

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

NFSW language- Click here for tweet

This is the kind of culture stuff that is going to change, but that change takes time.  New leaders have to come out and establish themselves.  

Jon Allen is already here.

[Thaiphoon]

On 5/28/2020 at 10:53 AM, turtle28 said:

Not going to say it's all bad luck, but we also drafted and signed a lot of guys who had injury issues before we drafted or signed them.

Jordan Reed, CT, Paul Richardson and Bryce Love come to mind. Also, another example is RG3, when he was drafted he had already had an ACL repair in college. And I'm probably missing some.

It's going to be incredibly interesting if in the coming years if our injuries change dramatically.

Not at all disagreeing with you there buddy. You and I are on the same page about not importing guys with injury histories before they have played a down in the NFL

 

[offbyone]

On 5/31/2020 at 11:52 AM, naptownskinsfan said:

The person I responded to said McVay turned it around in one season, and it's a completely different animal comparing the Rams he took over, and the Redskins that Rivera took over, both from a talent and culture perspective.  

On the one hand I agree with you that turning it around to the point where we achieve a 11-5 kind of season is a lot to ask for in year one.  But on the other hand I certainly think we could pull off a winning record if some things go right.  The big thing that went right on the rams other than good coaching is their qb went from complete bust to good NFL qb instantly.  Obviously this was also had a lot to do with coaching.  So if Haskins makes a big step forward, I don't see why Rivera couldn't achieve a similar result.

The roster McVay inherited certainly had some A talent, but so does the roster Rivera is inheriting.  Maybe McVay's was a bit better but it isn't massively better.  If in this example, coaching is being shown as so important then if anything Rivera, 2 time coach of the year, should have the edge over the first year HC McVay.  I think we should keep our expectations high. 

[turtle28]

27 minutes ago, offbyone said:

On the one hand I agree with you that turning it around to the point where we achieve a 11-5 kind of season is a lot to ask for in year one.  But on the other hand I certainly think we could pull off a winning record if some things go right.  The big thing that went right on the rams other than good coaching is their qb went from complete bust to good NFL qb instantly.  Obviously this was also had a lot to do with coaching.  So if Haskins makes a big step forward, I don't see why Rivera couldn't achieve a similar result.

The roster McVay inherited certainly had some A talent, but so does the roster Rivera is inheriting.  Maybe McVay's was a bit better but it isn't massively better.  If in this example, coaching is being shown as so important then if anything Rivera, 2 time coach of the year, should have the edge over the first year HC McVay.  I think we should keep our expectations high. 

I'd rather keep expectations low and be shocked if we exceed them than to do the usual where we have high expectations and are always disappointed with our teams results.

[turtle28]

 

[ripsean21]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I'd rather keep expectations low and be shocked if we exceed them than to do the usual where we have high expectations and are always disappointed with our teams results.

The truth is in my life this is actually the brightest roster talent wise and they are all crazy young. The only expectation I have for this year is anyone that plays us week 8 and beyond people on those offenses better know who the toughest team to play against is gonna be moving forward

[Boarman1]

On 5/22/2020 at 10:03 PM, Thaiphoon said:

Ron gets his entire contract. That goes without saying. I mean unless he goes winless in 5 seasons and the lockerroom is in mutiny, the guy is getting all 5 years.

Now, to the subject. 3-5 years to change a culture? 

As someone who has done it before in business, it can be done quicker. But in sports, this sounds about right.

You break it down

Year 1 - you're new. Most of them aren't. They are used to the old way. You will get some people buying in. And some that won't. You will see some people excelling in your system where they didn't before. And vice versa. This is the separating the wheat from the chaff period. In the meantime, the battle rhythm is set (as are changes) in terms of the organization, command structure, communications, mission statement (*), etc... This is the "Storming" period.

Don't expect a ton of wins in year 1 but if you can get them and strike lighting in a bottle, then that's good. But it's also good to suck this year and then get a high draft pick.

Year 2 - You've separated as many of the people who were either going to be a problem or not perform well under your new system. Now you can focus on "Norming". You'll now have two rookie classes and two free agent classes that have taken root in your team and only know your system in Washington. As such, something that was "new" in Year 1, is now the "norm" and is "expected". 

Here's where I'm expecting at LEAST 7-9 in terms of the record.

Year 3 - Our "Performing" period. 3 rookie classes. 3 Free Agencies. You are now in Year 3 and should have completely overhauled not only the roster but pretty much everyone in Redskins Park who does not have an eye on the mission statement (*). By now, your system is the only system the team has either had or the veterans that are still here are now used to running it via muscle memory.

I expect not less than 8-8 this season.

Years 4-5 -  is year 3 but better. These are where you see the team make leaps in bounds in terms of starting strong and finishing strong. Dominating other teams. I expect 9-7 in these years would be looked on as failure.

 

(*) EVERYWHERE I take over, if we do not have a mission statement, I quickly find out what the contract says we're supposed to do and I make one up. 

Now, I KNOW that you guys have heard about them and are probably rolling your eyes. But I swear they work. I took over on a contract once where IBM/Deloitte lost the contract. I was running that task order along with a number of others. And we won the work. I was familiar with the work and the client and so I knew why the incumbent lost the re-bid. It's because they lost sight of what they were there to do. 

So I quickly devised a mission statement and wrote it on the whiteboard in the team room. I then had each member repeat it to me. I told them that I would be asking them in a week what the mission statement was. So next week when I was in the office, I flipped the whiteboard over to hide it. And then proceeded to ask them all in the meeting what it was. And even if they got one word wrong in the mission statement, I considered them getting it wrong. The ones who got it right? I took them to a nice lunch.

Thereafter, if I was in a meeting...even if we were talking about something else, I would randomly ask the question out of the blue. "Hey, Tyler (or whomever I wanted to call on), what is our mission statement?"

They'd have to repeat it back to me...word for word. If they got it right? I bought lunch. Got it wrong? They had to live with the embarrassment. They started getting smart and printing it out at their desks and pinning it to their cubicle walls. Or printing it out and taping it to the underside of their badge holders.  I didn't mind them "cheating" because they were adapting and making sure they got it right.

Why did I do this pedantic thing (and yes it is VERY pedantic)? Because I wanted them to realize that EVERYTHING they did had an ultimately singular purpose. And EVERYTHING they did contributed to that purpose. So if they were doing anything that was not contributing to that purpose, then they needed to stop doing it and then, if they couldn't figure out how to proceed (**), ask their Project Manager (or me) for direction.

The result for that contract was that in 2 years, my company won the re-bid (first incumbent ever to do that with that agency) and continued for another 7 years winning re-bid after re-bid (I left them last year to take a more Executive position elsewhere). Because we never lost sight of the goal

 

(**) another thing I preach is ownership of your work. I treat everyone like they are managers. They are managers of their work/work-streams. They are professionals and I treat them as such. So up to a certain point, I encourage them making decisions. I lay out how far they can go in that realm of decision making (just can't speak for the company at a contract level - that's me), but if they want to yell "stop" and make sure things get stopped because they see a problem? I'm all for it. 

Anyway...back to Redskins...the team needs this. The Mission is to win the Super Bowl. Anything...and I do mean ANYTHING, that does not line up with that mission, needs to stop. Or leave town.

I love this take!

I'm more optimistic and I can see this team going 7-9 next year, then by year 2 going 9-7

Year 3-5 is where we solidify our mark on the game and go 10-6

[y*so*blu]

They might very well start winning after one or two years. But as far as fixing the culture, that's probably impossible until they get a new owner.

[RSkinGM]

8 hours ago, y*so*blu said:

They might very well start winning after one or two years. But as far as fixing the culture, that's probably impossible until they get a new owner.

I don't see that unless the owner is cheapskate ( he's not ) or  a social parihara. He's put a quality coach in place and front office. You'd have to explain this to me .

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

I don't see that unless the owner is cheapskate ( he's not ) or  a social parihara. He's put a quality coach in place and front office. You'd have to explain this to me .

I agree, coaches have a lot of power over the culture of the team. During Gibbs 2.0 we didn't become a Super Bowl contender or anything, but the culture was strong under him. I expect the same to happen under Rivera. It's TBD how far some of the young talent on this team can take us. I say though that as much as I loved some of the talent the Redskins had last decade - I think we have better young talent now - save Portis, Cooley, Samuels & Sean Taylor.

• I'd take Haskins’ potential over Jason Campbell

• I’d take Chase Young’s potential over what we got from Arrington.

• Our interior DL talent is a lot better than what we had last decade.

• I’d take Terry & Sims’ potential over Moss and Randle El.

• Now, obviously last decade we had Portis, Cooley, Samuels, a better LB corps & secondary but we do have some unproven talent at RB, LB and in the secondary that could shock us.

Haskins is the real key here. If he develops to be a good or great QB in the way Campbell never did then we’ll have a winning team and Rivera will be able to deliver on the culture.

[RSkinGM]

36 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I'd take Haskins’ potential over Jason Campbell

Oh Hell Yeah . I see sooooo much more with Ha skins .