Week 4 GDT - San Francisco 49ers @ Arizona Cardinals

[N4L]

12 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

Well, I hope you're correct on Solomon Thomas rather than me, because as of now, I'm more inclined to believe he won't have a sack this season let alone one in this game. I have just never looked at him and saw a guy that would be good rushing the passer. He's a good 5-technique and superior run defender because of strength, leverage, and a high motor, but he just doesn't do anything (as of now) that makes me think he understands how to get to the quarterback in his position. 

 

I agree with your assessment. He is very stout at the point of attack because of his build but his stature doesn't allow him to disengage blocks very well. He does have quick feet and a high football IQ so he may end up being a solid player, but now that I really see him against NFL calibur players, he seems like a 2nd round pick and not a guy who was taken #3 overall. 

 

As for this game, really tough to see us walking out of there with a win. The long week does help us, and maybe they are so used to whomping us that they take us lightly, but I just dont think we will be able to shut down guys like Fitz on the outside. Palmer is on the decline (why they haven't tried to add a young qb other than gabbert is beyond me) but he has confidence to sling it around. Goff tore us up last week so I don't expect us to be able to shut down their passing game. 

 

They did get a little one dimensional at the end of the mnf game and the cowboys were getting pressure without blitzing. If we can do that, we should be ok.

 

Whoever wins the turnover battle, wins the game. Their defense is built around turnovers 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Bounce back game for the Cardinals. 49ers lose and further secure higher draft position in a miserable season. Basically, the more favorable outcome. 

[y2lamanaki]

7 hours ago, N4L said:

I agree with your assessment. He is very stout at the point of attack because of his build but his stature doesn't allow him to disengage blocks very well. He does have quick feet and a high football IQ so he may end up being a solid player, but now that I really see him against NFL calibur players, he seems like a 2nd round pick and not a guy who was taken #3 overall. 

Good points. The one caveat for me is that one of the guys I would have been happy taking at #3 this year was Reuben Foster, and he seems very worthy through 11 snaps. And it's also something I think Thomas could pick up to an extent moving forward. He'll be a 5-tech player, and that's not a player you need to get to the QB. As long as he can fill that Ray McDonald role on the line that could get there on occasion, he'll be fine. We need a dedicated pass-rusher, and Buckner can be the Justin Smith-type disruption on passing downs. Granted, McDonald was found in the middle of the draft, but this was an odd year where the elite players weren't really there at the top. 

And while I was hoping to go safety to keep Ward at CB, it's kinda hard to fault the team here. Last year, we got lucky - I said it then, but the top of the draft was filled with 7 or 8 elite top 10 quality picks. This year I thought there was 1, and he went #1 overall. After that the gap was so large, that inevitably individuals were going to be selected earlier, and not a lot of teams were going to give up much of anything to get to the top. 

[StevenK]

I think this is one of the games that we could win, but we will lose in the fourth quarter. I think Fitz will have a big game against us and I think their defense will get more than enough push to cause Hoyer to throw multiple INTs. We really need to get in Palmer's face, but I just don't see that happening especially with the injury to Tank. Someone needs to step up, maybe Lynch or maybe now that Thomas is starting he can create something. I haven't watched a lot of Arizona's games, so I don't know how their O-line is playing. We shall see!

[J-ALL-DAY]

So the Cards are on a short week, down both starting guards, down arguably the best RB in the league and their best player in Johnson? If the DL doesn't dominate like they did against Seattle, then it will be flat out embarrassing. Really no excuses to lose this game...Unless ya know, we are the worse team in the league.

[Forge]

38 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

So the Cards are on a short week, down both starting guards, down arguably the best RB in the league and their best player in Johnson? If the DL doesn't dominate like they did against Seattle, then it will be flat out embarrassing. Really no excuses to lose this game...Unless ya know, we are the worse team in the league.

Okay, yeah, that definitely slants it a little more in our favor. I figured it would be a somewhat close loss for us before, but given their offensive line woes now, I could easily see this pushing the game in our favor. 

[big9erfan]

On 9/27/2017 at 9:14 PM, N4L said:

I agree with your assessment. He is very stout at the point of attack because of his build but his stature doesn't allow him to disengage blocks very well. He does have quick feet and a high football IQ so he may end up being a solid player, but now that I really see him against NFL calibur players, he seems like a 2nd round pick and not a guy who was taken #3 overall. 

 

As for this game, really tough to see us walking out of there with a win. The long week does help us, and maybe they are so used to whomping us that they take us lightly, but I just dont think we will be able to shut down guys like Fitz on the outside. Palmer is on the decline (why they haven't tried to add a young qb other than gabbert is beyond me) but he has confidence to sling it around. Goff tore us up last week so I don't expect us to be able to shut down their passing game. 

 

They did get a little one dimensional at the end of the mnf game and the cowboys were getting pressure without blitzing. If we can do that, we should be ok.

 

Whoever wins the turnover battle, wins the game. Their defense is built around turnovers 

I'm beginning to worry that your assessment of Thomas might be right! Anyone out there know how Allen is doing? He's the guy I wanted early but I'm afraid I jumped onto the Thomas hype train. The two guys I would have considered for our pick other than Thomas were Adams and Hooker. I just thought our db need was really high. I wanted to keep ward at cb and have one of those two take over at safety.Still very early but I think both are playing well. Hooker is continuing to look like a ball magnet with 2 ints already. Last year I thought he was the best deep safety I had seen in years.

[N4L]

@y2lamanaki @big9erfan it will be interesting to track how the career trajectories of hooker, Adams, and Thomas.

Safety really has become a premier position in the NFL. Offenses have become so multi-faceted that it forces defenders to be extremely well rounded. Safeties today need to be big enough not to get out muscled by TEs over the middle, while also being fast/agile enough to play in space. They have to be great form tacklers because of the way the game is played todayand because of the emphasis on player safety etc. same goes for linebackers, you really need speed over the middle. Its why teams have started playing tweeters all over the place. Buchanon on the cardinals is a great example of that (he is making his debut this week from what I was reading). 

I can't help typing this without wishing we still had Patrick Willis on our team. WE NEVER GOT TO SAY GOODBYE

 

you would think that John lynch would know his safeties, so the fact he was ready to pass on both of them for the two players we ended up with (foster and Thomas) has to count for something. Although it seems like John would've taken foster if Thomas wasn't there (that's what they tell us at least) so I guess there wasn't a scenario where we ended up with foster AND one of those two guys. So I guess I'll just pretend from now on that foster was the guy we took at #3 and that Thomas was the guy taken in the fringe of the second round? Ahhh yess that makes more sense in my head, and tapers expections for Thomas as I'm a firm believer in the idea if you take any DLman in the top 3 that they need to be on the same level as Von Miller or young Aldon smith. Thomas isn't that guy (yet?), but since we got someone else worthy of that pick in Foster, I'm happy

I can't help typing this without being excited we have Ruben Foster on our team WE HAVENT EVEN SAID HELLO

 

[rudyZ]

I feel that with Thomas, we went with a very safe character guy. Yes, there's a chance he may some day pick up a decent amount of sacks (like 8-10 a year, at most), but for a top 3 pick, that's a little disappointing. If you're taking a big guy in the top 3, you're hoping he'll be on the same level as JJ Watts, Aaron Donald, Geno or that kind of disrupter you have to account for on every play. The thing is, we didn't need that kind of big guy, because DeFo is now more likely than not to be that guy. We needed a complementary edge rusher for Buckner, not just a Buckner-lite. IF Thomas pans out and he's on the same level as Buckner (I'm being optimistic), Donald, Watts, then great, but we'll still need that complementary edge rusher. But there wasn't really anyone available to do that. Myles Garrett was that guy, but he wasn't available. Thomas, to me, was one of the safest pick in the draft. His floor is probably higher than many other first rounders' ceilings. He's going to be a very good player for a long time, and his character seems top notch. Did the front office go with Thomas to send a message? That we want character? Was he a leadership core type of addition to the roster? I'm inclined to think yes, but I also think we could have added to our future leadership core while adding more upside to the defense. I think Jammal Adams is very well regarded in terms of character, and he wouldn't have brought us something that we don't already have. I was a proponent of a larger trade down in order to get an edge rusher without reaching for it, while gaining some more draft asset. The trade that we did and the player that we picked is not and probably never will be a fail, but I feel we could have been more aggressive in rebuilding the roster. Thomas is safe, at least. MAybe it was the best way to start a new regime. If you go for the homerun and fail, it's a stain that can follow you throughout your run. Imagine if we went with Trubisky and he busts. That's risky. But Thomas, your owner can't really say you did bad. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Here's the thing, 8-10 sacks while rushing from inside is GREAT. That's exactly what Donald does every season and he may be the best player in football regardless of position. At the very least, he's one of the absolute few in the conversation. 

What's hurting Thomas right now is the other two DEs are better rushing from the inside which forces him to rush from the edge a lot more than he should. He simply doesn't have the pass rush moves nor the physical advantages to consistently best opposing tackles. I think Saleh realizes that and said earlier this week that he has to get more inside rushes for Thomas. From the three recent DL we drafted, he's the one that has potential to get double digit sacks, not Buckner nor Armstead. Buckner is the best of the bunch and is becoming close to elite all around, but Thomas has different type of explosiveness and quickness. I would make Thomas the LEO on base downs, and find a way to get him equal the rushes from the inside as Armstead. Then after the season, we just have to move Armstead and get something for him. Not a bad player at all, but the scheme change plus drafting Thomas has made him expendable. And he's not good enough to hold Thomas back. 

[Ataal]

Another game I could have had free tickets to, but I don't have anyone to go with me and I prefer to watch it on my 60" TV anyway.  

The Cardinals aren't exactly a powerhouse team this year, but I still think they pull it off.  I don't see how we contain their receivers unless we put a lot of pressure on Palmer.  Even then, they generate big plays quite a bit.  

[11sanchez11]

On 9/29/2017 at 1:19 PM, J-ALL-DAY said:

So the Cards are on a short week, down both starting guards, down arguably the best RB in the league and their best player in Johnson? If the DL doesn't dominate like they did against Seattle, then it will be flat out embarrassing. Really no excuses to lose this game...Unless ya know, we are the worse team in the league.

Boone was only starting because Iupati has been hurt. But since they are both out I have no idea who is gonna start at LG. Our LT is still most likely out and our right side has been dreadful, so yeah.

John Brown and Deone Bucannon will finally play tho!

[48 1/2ers]

9 hours ago, Ataal said:

Another game I could have had free tickets to, but I don't have anyone to go with me and I prefer to watch it on my 60" TV anyway.  

The Cardinals aren't exactly a powerhouse team this year, but I still think they pull it off.  I don't see how we contain their receivers unless we put a lot of pressure on Palmer.  Even then, they generate big plays quite a bit.  

I've had the same situation with our home games. Its so much better watching games on TV. I guess field passes might make it worth it but even then I'd probably not be paying attention to a pass Hoyer overthrows to one of our midget receivers where it hits me in the dome and I'd become a meme for the next 8 months. I'll stay home and chat with the gentlemen of FF. 

[Ataal]

11 hours ago, 48 1/2ers said:

I've had the same situation with our home games. Its so much better watching games on TV. I guess field passes might make it worth it but even then I'd probably not be paying attention to a pass Hoyer overthrows to one of our midget receivers where it hits me in the dome and I'd become a meme for the next 8 months. I'll stay home and chat with the gentlemen of FF. 

I have a hard time with large crowds.  Social anxiety, I guess.  My eyesight isn't that great, either.  I can't tell what's going on most of the time.  Plus, even though I can see the stadium from my back porch, it takes an hour to get there and an hour to get back.  Yikes!

[J-ALL-DAY]

So Cooper and Lee active. Hopefully Lee starts over Armstrong.