2020 Packers Defensive Backs

[Joe]

12 hours ago, ChaRisMa said:

6’ 200 lbs with ball skills. Age 24. Some NFL experience. He has a chance. I still think he’d be way better being a zone boundary corner but he has a chance. Development can happen anywhere along a rookie contract. Some are late bloomers. His 2017 was awesome. I’m wondering if he was on the roster hurt last year.

We seemed to play a lot of zone last year so you'd think he would've shown something by now. 

The more I look into the injury issue, the more I think it's a combination of two things. First, the injury itself given that it was a foot injury; and second, the fact that his schematic role is undefined compared to that of the other DB's.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/11/07/mike-pettine-explains-why-cb-josh-jackson-wasnt-active-vs-chargers/

Think this article clears up a lot IMHO. He was also deactivated against the Seahawks for an illness FWIW. Still, I think we need to give further consideration to the foot injury.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Joe

[vegas492]

Eh.  You gotta get Jackson on the field and see what you have.  Camp and pre-season, if there is one.  If he fails, give Tramon a call.

[Joe]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Eh.  You gotta get Jackson on the field and see what you have.  Camp and pre-season, if there is one.  If he fails, give Tramon a call.

I'm wondering if they've told him he's insurance. No other team has reached out to him if I'm not mistaken. 

[craig]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

...The more I look into the injury issue, the more I think it's a combination of two things. First, the injury itself given that it was a foot injury; and second, the fact that his schematic role is undefined compared to that of the other DB's.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/11/07/mike-pettine-explains-why-cb-josh-jackson-wasnt-active-vs-chargers/

Think this article clears up a lot IMHO. ...

“Part of it too is just us trying to find a permanent home for him. Do we want him as an outside corner?” Pettine said. “He showed a lot of progress this offseason, in the beginning of the year, playing the nickel for us. That’s ultimately his best spot, which, obviously, Tramon is entrenched there too. He’s a versatile guy, but we want to avoid him becoming the jack of all trades, master of none. He can play outside, play a little safety, play nickel. We want to find a permanent home for him.”

Interesting that Petting thinks nickel is ultimately the best spot for Jackson.  Nickel was Tramon; nickel is now open.  So that would seem to be an open opportunity for him.  

From that same article:  “Will Redmond and Chandon both have played a lot of reps and gotten their own little niche .... So that got him behind. He hasn’t really been able to overcome those guys.”  It makes sense that having missed camp, that Jackson would start out behind those guys.  And the default would stick with status quo.  But "he hasn't been able to overcome those guys" suggests he didn't show enough potential to rearrange the status quo. 

Another shot this camp.  Maybe he'll win nickel, and Sullivan will keep whatever "little niche" he had before.  But it's possible that Jackson just isn't actually any better, and that he's played a lot less football than they have so isn't as experienced, smart, or instinctive with whatever talent he's got.  So he may just stay behind . 

I do agree that foot/ankle stuff may factor, perhaps more than just putting him behind on the status quo?  Guys often get cleared before they are 100%, and want to play and be a hero without being 100%.    It's harder to make sharp plants and cuts and pushes and leverage and stuff if your foot and ankle are weak or painful.  (2nd-year Davante got clearance and played badly on two bad ankles...) . It may be that as a guy with somewhat fringy speed and quickness to begin with, that even subtle additional losses of speed or quickness impacted Jackson's capacity even more?  Hopefully he's 100% this year, earns snaps on merit, and plays well for us.    

[Joe]

17 minutes ago, craig said:

“Part of it too is just us trying to find a permanent home for him. Do we want him as an outside corner?” Pettine said. “He showed a lot of progress this offseason, in the beginning of the year, playing the nickel for us. That’s ultimately his best spot, which, obviously, Tramon is entrenched there too. He’s a versatile guy, but we want to avoid him becoming the jack of all trades, master of none. He can play outside, play a little safety, play nickel. We want to find a permanent home for him.”

Interesting that Pettine thinks nickel is ultimately the best spot for Jackson.  Nickel was Tramon; nickel is now open.  So that would seem to be an open opportunity for him.  

From that same article:  “Will Redmond and Chandon both have played a lot of reps and gotten their own little niche .... So that got him behind. He hasn’t really been able to overcome those guys.”  It makes sense that having missed camp, that Jackson would start out behind those guys.  And the default would stick with status quo.  But "he hasn't been able to overcome those guys" suggests he didn't show enough potential to rearrange the status quo. 

Another shot this camp.  Maybe he'll win nickel, and Sullivan will keep whatever "little niche" he had before.  But it's possible that Jackson just isn't actually any better, and that he's played a lot less football than they have so isn't as experienced, smart, or instinctive with whatever talent he's got.  So he may just stay behind . 

I do agree that foot/ankle stuff may factor, perhaps more than just putting him behind on the status quo?  Guys often get cleared before they are 100%, and want to play and be a hero without being 100%.    It's harder to make sharp plants and cuts and pushes and leverage and stuff if your foot and ankle are weak or painful.  (2nd-year Davante got clearance and played badly on two bad ankles...) . It may be that as a guy with somewhat fringy speed and quickness to begin with, that even subtle additional losses of speed or quickness impacted Jackson's capacity even more?  Hopefully he's 100% this year, earns snaps on merit, and plays well for us.    

“Will Redmond and Chandon both have played a lot of reps and gotten their own little niche ...."

I think that line says all we need to know. You don't see coaches throwing players under the bus unlike Bill Parcels and his rocky relationship with Terry Glenn, but Jackson's really going to need a coming out party in camp. 

Realistically, we should just hope that he gets some good reps in and isn't a liability. I'm ok with him being CB4 at this point. It sounds like he's going to have more of an interior role so does he take snaps away from Greene?

[ChaRisMa]

7 hours ago, Joe said:

I'm wondering if they've told him he's insurance. No other team has reached out to him if I'm not mistaken. 

Far more likely they aren’t signing him because he doesn’t want to go through all the camps. He doesn’t need them. Same defense he’s got like 5 years experience in. Just needs to be ready. Also kinda suspect he won’t be back...

 

7 hours ago, Joe said:

“Will Redmond and Chandon both have played a lot of reps and gotten their own little niche ...."

I think that line says all we need to know. You don't see coaches throwing players under the bus unlike Bill Parcels and his rocky relationship with Terry Glenn, but Jackson's really going to need a coming out party in camp. 

Realistically, we should just hope that he gets some good reps in and isn't a liability. I'm ok with him being CB4 at this point. It sounds like he's going to have more of an interior role so does he take snaps away from Greene?

Kevin King is actually asking for slot reps for what that’s worth.

[Joe]

13 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said:

Kevin King is actually asking for slot reps for what that’s worth.

oh? Was that part of a Packersnews.com article I didn't want to read because I didn't want to pay for a subscription? He's 6-3 so it makes sense he'd want to take on some bigger receivers and TE's.

[ChaRisMa]

1 minute ago, Joe said:

oh? Was that part of a Packersnews.com article I didn't want to read because I didn't want to pay for a subscription? He's 6-3 so it makes sense he'd want to take on some bigger receivers and TE's.

I’d never pay for news. One of the reporters had it on Twitter. It was a quote from the DB coach who looks vaguely computer generated.

[Shanedorf]

Here' the ageless one...playing to his help and making the INT

 

 

[Shanedorf]

A little offseason fluffery on GB's top players in the secondary via PackersWire

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/06/22/packers-secondary-could-take-star-turn-in-2020/

"The addition of coach Gray adds another layer to the developmental potential in the secondary. A former Pro Bowler with decades of experience teaching cornerbacks and safeties, Gray is confident he has the knowledge and tools to take the talent in Green Bay to another level. His coaching past suggests he could be the key to maximizing the Pro Bowl talent of Alexander and Savage while also helping King play more consistently."

[Shanedorf]

from PackersTalk

https://packerstalk.com/2020/06/22/dismissing-labels-has-helped-amos-reach-new-heights-in-green-bay/?

Pro Football Focus comprises composite rankings of the safety groups, grading safeties mostly on run defense, pass rush, and coverage abilities – in March 2019, PFF’s Sam Monson posted a screenshot of the 10 best safeties over a three-year period (2016-2018 seasons), and Amos was third overall on the list, behind Earl Thomas (SEA) and Harrison Smith (MIN), who are both very good safeties in their own rights across their careers.

But Amos, his 90.6 overall defensive grade was built up by high rankings in all three categories – 89.7 run-defense grade (2nd-best), 62.8 pass-rush grade (7th-best), and 92.2 coverage grade (4th-best). With all of these metrics being as high as they are, the notion that Amos is a box safety (before he came over to GB, at least) was a pretty far reach.

[Shanedorf]

from CheeseheadTV

Fred Smoot - a nine-year NFL veteran and former player of Gray's - had this to say about what he will add to this Green Bay Packers' secondary:

"He’s known for filling in the blanks,” said Smoot. “Every time you get a cornerback in this league, it’s always going to be ‘he does this well, does this well, but..’ He’s going to find out whatever that ‘but’ is and he’s going to work on that. He’s never going to work on the things you already do great.
He’s going to try to complete the pizza, if you know what I mean.”

 

[Spartacus]

On 6/22/2020 at 12:51 PM, Shanedorf said:

from PackersTalk

https://packerstalk.com/2020/06/22/dismissing-labels-has-helped-amos-reach-new-heights-in-green-bay/?

Pro Football Focus comprises composite rankings of the safety groups, grading safeties mostly on run defense, pass rush, and coverage abilities – in March 2019, PFF’s Sam Monson posted a screenshot of the 10 best safeties over a three-year period (2016-2018 seasons), and Amos was third overall on the list, behind Earl Thomas (SEA) and Harrison Smith (MIN), who are both very good safeties in their own rights across their careers.

But Amos, his 90.6 overall defensive grade was built up by high rankings in all three categories – 89.7 run-defense grade (2nd-best), 62.8 pass-rush grade (7th-best), and 92.2 coverage grade (4th-best). With all of these metrics being as high as they are, the notion that Amos is a box safety (before he came over to GB, at least) was a pretty far reach.

Not to mention look what happened to Eddie Jackson's stats without Amos. All of the splash plays across the board are down with just tackles going up. 

[Shanedorf]

 

 

 

[Beast]

Yeah, it's a bit early but what FA or top 2 round CB will the Packers pick up in 2021?

As I'm not expecting they're going to stick with the current crew, as I'm thinking it needs improvement, unless a couple of guys seriously surprise and step up a lot.