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Is football a more complex sport than baseball, basketball, and soccer?

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56 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Rules based basketball doesn’t actually get played until kids are 7-9, 5 is the earliest for a non rules based league.

Baseball however, kids have little leagues that start as low as 3-4 years of age.

Soccer with one of the easiest barriers to entry is at 3 years old along with a few others.

Basketball generally requires too much coordination and cognitive understanding for rules that make the barrier of entry for a young kid too difficult. It’s much easier to say “you can’t touch the ball with your hands” than “You can’t touch the ball with your feet, but you also can’t move while holding the ball, you can move by dribbling the ball, but not after you’ve picked up the ball to hold it.”

If your 5 year old cant understand dribbling then you may want to not try procreation again... All of the big sports require coordination that doesn't develop till later. That is why the lil ones play t-ball, or what ever that 3-4 year olds thing they call soccer is. Idk about hockey, I am from miami so younth hockey is an unknown to me. But coaching peewee football has to be one of the most daunting tasks in the world. I seriously rather try and herd cats during a hail storm while on fire than try and get a bunch of 5 year olds to execute a play.

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4 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Rules based basketball doesn’t actually get played until kids are 7-9, 5 is the earliest for a non rules based league.

Baseball however, kids have little leagues that start as low as 3-4 years of age.

Soccer with one of the easiest barriers to entry is at 3 years old along with a few others.

Basketball generally requires too much coordination and cognitive understanding for rules that make the barrier of entry for a young kid too difficult. It’s much easier to say “you can’t touch the ball with your hands” than “You can’t touch the ball with your feet, but you also can’t move while holding the ball, you can move by dribbling the ball, but not after you’ve picked up the ball to hold it.”

I'm also thinking about if an alien came to earth and we had to explain a sport to him, basketball would be relatively easy. Put the ball in the hoop, stop from the other guy putting it in the hoop. Like other ball/goal sports. But yes, dribbling is a bit tricky, so it would be more complex than soccer, hockey, lacrosse, etc. 

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10 hours ago, Vorsutus said:

If your 5 year old cant understand dribbling then you may want to not try procreation again... All of the big sports require coordination that doesn't develop till later. That is why the lil ones play t-ball, or what ever that 3-4 year olds thing they call soccer is. Idk about hockey, I am from miami so younth hockey is an unknown to me. But coaching peewee football has to be one of the most daunting tasks in the world. I seriously rather try and herd cats during a hail storm while on fire than try and get a bunch of 5 year olds to execute a play.

1. Perhaps insulting kids aren’t the best use of your time?

2. This isn’t MY recommendation, it’s recommended by specialists on the subject. Are you a specialist on the subject? Doesn’t seem like you are based off of your explanations. So again perhaps insulting kids isn’t the best use of your time.

3. Dribbling a basketball isn’t as easy a concept to understand for a 5 year old as you assert. If you’ve ever participated in any sort of child development/coaching, kids have a great difficult with not picking the ball up and then wanting to dribble it once again. This is a clear violation of basketball rules and thus why it’s difficult for kids to pick up. It’s not as simple as “see goal get goal”. This is why they can only get into the non-rule format.

But even dribbling itself while walking/running is a much more difficult barrier to entry than simply “holding onto a football” or “kicking a ball and running to catch up with it”. Hockey (on ice) would likely be the most comparable in barrier to entry... as you have to master the concept of skating as well as then the coordination with a stick in your hand while moving the puck. However in hockey they also have off ice hockey for fundamentals with the stick... which, again, is an easier barrier to entry as its soccer with a stick in place of your feet. But on ice and with rules most experts typically place the “normal” age of entry to be somewhere closer to 7.

4. The point is that you can get 3-4 year olds involved in the actual mechanics of those other sports sooner than basketball because of the lower barrier of entry. Clearly in all the sports the rules aren’t yet introduced, generally it takes roughly 2-3 years after your “cat herding” stage before you can start to get them involved in the rules and the greater coordination for a more competitive experience.

5. I started baseball at roughly 7/8 competitively and the rules were understood my first time in practice. Many children had been playing “competitively“ since they were about 5/6 years old, which isn’t surprising. There are far more individual roles and responsibilities that are easier to coach a kid into (while the adult handles the heavy lifting of which kid to put in which role) and train as well as less rules to have to explain and memorize for a successful game to be achieved.

6. Football is largely the same as well from a barrier of entry role in terms of coaching a kid to master a singular role. Tell the kid to line up and chase the guy with the ball or tell him to run toward the goal line or to get in the way of another person, that require less juggling of coordination- for sure.

However football requires FAR more technical understanding of the game that a kid does not have a grasp of... they’re just doing what they’re told to do without actually understanding what their role does to fully contribute to the whole. Thus blocking schemes have to be INCREDIBLY simplistic with kids (but can be done) and generally the game revolves mostly around just running because passing and catching a football requires a much higher coordination skillset to be successful... however a game of football can be achieved without passing the football... and thus has an easier barrier of entry for a novice. But the rules and understanding of the game far outweighs the simplicity of the initial barrier of entry.

That all said I can only rank Basketball, baseball, and Football as I can take expert opinion mixed with my own anecdotal experience.

1. Football- Learning a zone blocking scheme, which hole is what, how that coordinates to the language of a play, understanding how each position moves and coordinates... then on defense the gaps, what means a blitz, what means a coverage, etc. I didn’t start football until my 10th grade year and I had experience playing Madden for years to that point... it took me something like 2-3 weeks before I started to get “somewhat comfortable” with what was all going on. Turns out I had no idea what those plays on Madden actually meant.

2. Basketball- Had experience playing NBA live since I was 6-7 years old. Took playing for a full day before I truly understood the rules of the game. But picking up a zone defense in basketball was not 6-7 year old material (luckily the 90s used less zone defense at the NBA level for rudimentary versions of that game to have). It similarly took WEEKS of practice within a motion offense to really get all the plays down and learning multiple roles within the offense without confusing it with other roles learned. But it still was not quite as complicated and jarring as my experience with football.

3. Baseball- From a skill level you could argue its supremacy. It would surely be more difficult than football from a skill level. If we’re talking from a “skills perspective only” than I would easily have baseball, hockey, soccer, and basketball far more advanced over the requirements needed in football, but in terms of the overall complexity of the game itself... football and basketball are certainly more complex sports that require far more training within the rules, plays, and team coordination. All of them have personnel complexities as well. From a barrier entry to mid level rules to the advanced understanding of the individual games... this is how I would rank it all.

But if the argument is from a more complex SKILL perspective (not the difficulty of the actual game), which seems to be why some are arguing for baseball here, perhaps some notion of confusion... then baseball would be up there as the most difficult sports from a skill perspective. But the game itself can be learned within one practice of one is old enough.

... this is my last “dissertation” on this though. Seems to be too many people with too much variability in their definitions of “difficulty of the sport”.

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@diamondbull424

I never insulted children. All kids will make stupid mistakes like you are talking about. But learning to dribble is not hard. That is like the people who say learning to long snap is hard. Sure not everyone can do it but it shouldn't take anyone more than a few hours to be decent at it. 

Also this thread is about game complexity. It is not about skill required which I will not get into with you. And it is not about difficulty of the aport whatever that even means. Jumpung hurdles in a race is difficult but in no way complex...

Edited by Vorsutus

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4 hours ago, Vorsutus said:

@diamondbull424

Also this thread is about game complexity. It is not about skill required which I will not get into with you. And it is not about difficulty of the aport whatever that even means. Jumpung hurdles in a race is difficult but in no way complex...

When I made this thread, I had complexity of each sport’s skill in mind. I didn’t define what exactly to judge the complexity of, partly because there’s so many things to judge and I wanted each person to answer a few of them here and there. But skill is one of the things, yeah.

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On 30/05/2020 at 2:02 AM, AngusMcFife said:

 

Moderate: ball sport with more abstract rules (baseball, cricket, tennis). 



 

I think cricket needs to be above baseball, but it certainly has to be above tennis. It has fairly similar stats to baseball, but here are the fielding (defense) positions...

 

maxresdefault.jpg

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At the deepest level, football is probably the most complex. There are so many different positions that all have their intricacies yet also have to work together.

At the base level, as a spectator sport, I think baseball is the hardest to enjoy quickly (if you want to describe this as complex).

Basketball/Soccer > Football > Baseball.

This is primarily because the first three sports is about bring the ball to a certain place. Football is a little more complicated because of the downs system, but all three require putting the ball in a certain area.

Baseball is practically the opposite where the ball is basically used to STOP scoring. Explaining a batter needs to reach home plate after rounding bases is easy. But how a batter advances between bases requires so much knowledge of the rules.

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