Is football a more complex sport than baseball, basketball, and soccer?

[Heimdallr]

Yes, and not in a good way.

[Mox]

Football is easily the most complex major sport in the U.S.

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

People do play pickup hockey all the time. You don't need complex strategies to play the full game of hockey.

Sure, you can play street football, but it doesn't work with a full team. You couldn't have an 11-11 football game.

 

You can freelance play in hockey with the full numbers. You can't freelance play football with 22 guys.

Why can’t you? I’ve done it. “Blockers block.”... “Charles you run a slant” “John you run a fly route” etc.

“Everybody block to the right, HB toss to the right.”

”OL block, HB toss fake to the right and then run PA. John run a slant. Charles you run a comeback. Tim fake a bubble screen and then go deep. Ready? Break.”

We even have a local game for the community filled with old football players where they play to decide which town is to claim the waste treatment plant... and the smell that comes from it on occasion. Very minimal meetup time is allotted, certainly not enough to scheme an entire offense or defense. Just enough to provide a competitive game for the community... which any of these sports would benefit from.

Having ANY of these games in any sport, regardless of if it’s random guys or not require people having some level of understanding and experience within said game.

Just like I could do the above with a football game and it will turn out looking ugly with people with lesser experienced players and just like I couldn’t take the above strategy and actually beat an organized squad...

I couldn’t simply walk onto a basketball court with players I’ve never played with before and have a good chemistry against a legit squad. Heck if this person has never picked up a basketball before, they won’t even be able to dribble the ball or shoot the ball with any level of reliability.

You’re over-complicating football and over-simplifying all the other sports and the skills required in your examples.

With no experience in soccer I tried playing as an athlete who excelled in football, basketball, and track. I had no idea what I was doing. I was a random guy. Apparently the type of defense I was playing was illegal too. I couldn’t be aligned in a particular spot as a particular position and run the entire field, who knew. I played all day and still don’t know half of what was going on. It also took an incredible amount of endurance that my football/basketball shape was not prepared for. In football I get a chance to take a break after every play to catch my breath. Basketball has a fast pace, but far less ground to cover. Soccer had so much ground to cover and with no legitimate breaks, I was incredibly winded after just one game. This is not something some random person can jump into and be prepared for.

Baseball is literally the only sport of the ones listed where after one practice you could get the game down on a simplistic level. As baseball, softball, and kickball all have similar rules... and the latter two are taught in one practice in PE classes all the time. I’ve seen the same attempted in PE classes with basketball and the number of up and downs, travels, double dribbles, etc were insane.

Football is largely static outside of 6 positions, you have a huddle where you can explain things. It’s what presents the opportunity to be incredibly strategic as well as incredibly basic. You don’t NEED to pass or have crazy codes and such in your huddle in order to play football. You can simply run the football on every play and tell people... block right or block left and rely on an athletic specimen to carry the game for you.

In no other game can you simply take an athlete with no training and he could dominate more than he could in football.

[scar988]

Just by sheer # of players football is the most complex. 11 vs. 11. whole offensive and defensive units. Special teams units might be the most complex of them all. 

[BleedTheClock]

I don’t think people realize how many hours are spent preparing for football. Its not debatable that it’s the most time consuming and complex. 

[Snake Plissken]

4 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

People do play pickup hockey all the time. You don't need complex strategies to play the full game of hockey.

Sure, you can play street football, but it doesn't work with a full team. You couldn't have an 11-11 football game.

 

You can freelance play in hockey with the full numbers. You can't freelance play football with 22 guys.

“Unless you are referring to floor hockey, “A random group of guys” doesn’t just play pick up hockey  Guys with hockey/skating backgrounds play pick up hockey.  
 

On a structural/organizational/strategic level, competitive football is the most complex. But, the addition of skating adds a level of complexity to hockey the other sports don’t have.  And it is not something that can be overcome with any amount of athletic ability, coaching or strategy.  The number one prerequisite for hockey is being able to “skate”, much like someone should need to be able to run in football, basketball, soccer, and baseball.  Any competitive hockey like youth, city-league, church league, old timers and higher requires a certain level of competence, much like being able to back peddle or slide step in other sports.  If you can’t skate, you can’t play. 
 

While football may be complex on some levels, it is also among the simplest. 
 

 

[DannyB]

1 hour ago, Snake Plissken said:

But, the addition of skating adds a level of complexity to hockey the other sports don’t have.

That's not really the complexity that's being discussed here. Yes that's an extra skill that has been added to the basic formula of the team sport, but even if somebody had never seen hockey before, and you were showing it to them, you'd just have to be like "oh yeah, so they're skating on ice". The person wouldn't be like "How do these shiny metal shoe-blades work? What is this slick surface they are traversing?? I don't get it!"

You could make a rule in golf that you can only stand on one leg when you attempt a golf shot. That makes it harder to do successfully, but it doesn't add an entire dimension of complexity to the rules.

[Snake Plissken]

23 minutes ago, DannyB said:

That's not really the complexity that's being discussed here. Yes that's an extra skill that has been added to the basic formula of the team sport, but even if somebody had never seen hockey before, and you were showing it to them, you'd just have to be like "oh yeah, so they're skating on ice". The person wouldn't be like "How do these shiny metal shoe-blades work? What is this slick surface they are traversing?? I don't get it!"

You could make a rule in golf that you can only stand on one leg when you attempt a golf shot. That makes it harder to do successfully, but it doesn't add an entire dimension of complexity to the rules.

I understand it is a skill component and not exactly part of the original question (and perhaps why hockey wasn’t included). But topics often take some different tangents related to the original, and that was what I was responding to. 

In your first post, you brought up both accessibility and ability, which I think my post relates to more than rules and basic understanding.  
 

Others also brought up hockey, so I felt it was fair game in the conversation.  In a basic comparison, I think it is accurate to say that footballl rules are more complex and there are more intricacies to understand in watching the game than others discussed.  But, I think there are other factors in other sports that are more complex or at least worthy of discussion.  

 

[diamondbull424]

7 hours ago, DannyB said:

That's not really the complexity that's being discussed here. Yes that's an extra skill that has been added to the basic formula of the team sport, but even if somebody had never seen hockey before, and you were showing it to them, you'd just have to be like "oh yeah, so they're skating on ice". The person wouldn't be like "How do these shiny metal shoe-blades work? What is this slick surface they are traversing?? I don't get it!"

You could make a rule in golf that you can only stand on one leg when you attempt a golf shot. That makes it harder to do successfully, but it doesn't add an entire dimension of complexity to the rules.

This is incorrect though. Look up the definition of a sport and skill is included in the definition. The OP has also clarified that he was including “skill” in the complexity of a sport. So while I took the thread to mean what you stated regarding the complexity of the game independent of the actions, he did say “sport” and not “game of football”. It’s semantics, but it actually matters in this case... especially considering your retort to the previous poster regarding how skill isn’t involved in the equation.

Whats more at its most fundamentally simple level, football isn’t as difficult as ice hockey.

Advanced football strategy, sure there is nothing quite on the level as football when considering the amount of players and strategy for each line item.

But football at its entry level doesn’t require passing, it doesn’t require “x’s and O’s ”, it doesn’t require advanced blocking schemes, etc. It simply requires guys to lineup, block, and move the football from point a to point b without committing spot fouls (penalties) like false starts. The other caveat is maintaining your possession of the ball... which in football is far easier than in hockey, soccer, baseball, and basketball (the big 5 sports of the USA). There’s no notion of consistently removing the ball away from your possession and back to your possession; this all simultaneously being described as you “possessing it”.

So while I agree with it being the most complex game, I just had to make it known that skill is an inclusion when considering the sport. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by diamondbull424

[Vorsutus]

7 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

The other caveat is maintaining your possession of the ball... which in football is far easier than in hockey, soccer, baseball, and basketball (the big 5 sports of the USA).

You dont want the ball in baseball tho.

[diamondbull424]

15 minutes ago, Vorsutus said:

You dont want the ball in baseball tho.

Yeah I kind of went into more detail and then deleted the rest after I felt my post was getting too long (again). Basically here’s the rest of what I had included before deletion.

But yeah baseball is a unique sport in that it’s almost anti-possession. The bases and the bat work more similarly to how the ball works in other sports.

Hockey you never have an actual possession of the puck, the stick that you possess has the possession. It’s like a third party possession.

Then basketball and soccer you are dribbling which consists of equally losing the ball and gaining the ball with each dribble, literally you’re losing possession consistently during that process... though it all still counts as “possession” (kind of ironic in a way 😂).

Whereas football is the only one where you constantly have the ball in your possession. Obviously in all of those sports the goal of the defender is to try and cause you to lose that possession... again, baseball being unique. You’re trying to get players off the bases, keep them off the bases, and prevent them from getting home.

Edited June 3, 2020 by diamondbull424

[Melbourne 9er]

Well the AFL (Aussie Rules football) starts again on the 11th June. You want complex and skillful then check it out. 18 vs 18, 4x30 minute quarters of non-stop action, players can run up to 20km per match and if you can understand all the rules then I need a few explained to me.

[Vorsutus]

6 minutes ago, Melbourne 9er said:

Well the AFL (Aussie Rules football) starts again on the 11th June. You want complex and skillful then check it out. 18 vs 18, 4x30 minute quarters of non-stop action, players can run up to 20km per match and if you can understand all the rules then I need a few explained to me.

If we are tossing sports america does not play into this I want an explanation for that 200 something day cricket game. Lol. I get a baseball game can technically last that long but at some point you should just say f it we are calling this a tie.

[Melbourne 9er]

Oh and cricket is much more complex than baseball. Imagine baseball with the pitcher and hitter in the middle of the field, the pitcher has to "bowl" the ball (must have a straight elbow so can't throw it) into the dirt so it can go anywhere, anything over waist high on the full is a no-ball, which needs to be rebowled and a run given up, and aims at 3 small sticks (stumps) to get out the hitter. The hitter can then score runs by hitting the ball anywhere in a 360° area of the pitch. The bowler can deliberately aim at the hitter and this is a genuine strategy to get the hitter out.

For strategy you want to watch a test match that can last 5 days and still end up in an exciting draw.

For an entry level, and just for some entertainment value, watch a 20/20 game from the Big Bash or the Indian Premier League. Only lasts a couple of hours but is worth the watch.

[Melbourne 9er]

1 minute ago, Vorsutus said:

If we are tossing sports america does not play into this I want an explanation for that 200 something day cricket game. Lol. I get a baseball game can technically last that long but at some point you should just say f it we are calling this a tie.

Well that was good timing.