2020 Green Bay Packers Defensive Line

[Donzo]

15 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

Here's the thing, and not to harp on a dead drum I believe the idiom is, but how I feel about this group is affected a lot by how Rodgers performs.  This is a play from ahead group all the way.  If you told me we'd have 2010-2014 Rodgers I'd be fine with this group, especially with how thiccc the OLB group is pretty much to a man. But right now, we have 2015-2019 Rodgers.

This is not a team that you feel good about winning inside on early downs on the regular, and the longer they have the play the run the worse it gets because they have Clark + zero guys you feel good about anchoring against a double more than once or twice a game. Plus Lancaster who can anchor against the double but can't do literally anything else. 

The only real hope for improvement is Keke, but I don't know that I have a real good sense of him...If he does the unlikely and takes a real year 2 jump, this group could actually be a positive with an improved Rodgers; Clark + a legit 3T with Z/Preston outside is going to win with regularity regardless of the opposition.  They still lack depth in a big way but just need to be able to let Z/Gary cover for that inside. 

 

Shees, there's a lot of wrong info in your post, especially about Rodgers. I just quoted part of your post. I only quoted the parts I was going to comment on. I'll hit on Rodgers last.

The D-line won inside on early downs a lot last year, especially when they had enough players in position to cover all the gaps.They also had a few bad games against the Eagles, 9ers and Chargers. But, for most of the season, they were solid to good most of the time.

Lancaster showed he can do a lot more than just anchor against a double team. His FF & FR against the Chiefs was huge. He was a menace against the Broncos and Redskins; he also had real good game against the Bears in GB. Heck, he even had a couple sacks last year. All in all, he's a good player for 25-30 snaps a game... He did kinda wear out last year after that Bear game in GB. He wasn't too productive the last couple games or in the playoffs. This type of thing is common for young DL. We can definitely expect an improvement with his end of the season stamina.

There's a lot more hope for improvement than Keke- a lot more!... Adams is going to either play like he did the last half of 2018 and the first game in Chicago last year, or be replaced. Just that is a big improvement over the snaps Adams took with his hurt shoulder after that game in Chicago. Lowry and Lancaster can and should play better this year. And, we have no idea if they have lack depth or not, especially not "in a big way"... The depth could actually be pretty good.

For the Rodgers nonsense, I just don't get it?!? That's the type of BS you expect from Bear & Viking trolls or Florio or Baylis. Rodgers was just as great in 2015, 2016 and 2017 as he was from 2010 - 2014. Heck, I think 2016 & 2017 were his greatest seasons. Maybe not his best, but his greatest. I'll go into detail after touching on 2018. For 2018, he may have a had his greatest game of his career to open the season in 2018. Then had to play the rest of the season on a shredded knee while throwing the ball to a receiving corp that would be lucky to rank in the top 25 in NFL. Adams by himself would probably get the group to 25th, but after him- eek!

2016 was "run the table" season. How any Packer fan can bellyache about Rodgers in 2016 is beyond me. It was truly a legendary year. They'll be making movies about it and signing songs about it for hundreds of years. I'll leave it at that... In 2017, Rodgers was incredible as usual.  I think his first game was so-so, then he was off and running. The thing is- he broke his freakin' collarbone!.. Geez O petes, how this is not understood by Packer fans is beyond me. I'm just going by memory, but I recall him playing fantastic just before getting hurt in Minny. I think he destroyed the Bears then had that huge game in Dallas to beat the Cowboys. Then, the injury.

To end the 2017, he went out and tried to save the season and played with broken collarbone in Carolina- a broken freaking collarbone!. He didn't play well. I think it was his only game with 3-INTs. He was rusty, and had a broken freaking collar bone!.. It was truly an amazing effort and one of the guttiest performances in the history of the NFL... I believe he had a 98 passer rating for the year, and not counting the game he played with a broken freaking collar bone!.. His rating was 108 or so.

My Packer group had a lot of discussion about Rodgers the last few years, so I remember a lot of it. I can breakdown 2015, too. It was another great year for Rodgers... But, I've already made my point, so I wont do it now in this thread about the DL. Again, there's lots of good promise for the DL this year.

[HighCalebR]

21 minutes ago, Donzo said:

That's not how it works.

There absolutely is gap integrity at the LS- very important. If a player dominates his gap (push back), it's OK if he goes horizontal to make a stronger play. It works very well when all the players are on the same page. 

 

He literally said it's ok if you get the pushback and your head is in the wrong hole, because theyre looking for the positive movement at the line of scrimmage, then the LB comes in, overlaps into what WAS the DL's hole to clean up the play.

It's exactly how it works. A man isn't a gap.

[Donzo]

29 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

He literally said it's ok if you get the pushback and your head is in the wrong hole, because theyre looking for the positive movement at the line of scrimmage, then the LB comes in, overlaps into what WAS the DL's hole to clean up the play.

It's exactly how it works. A man isn't a gap.

Again, as stated, there is gap integrity at the LOS... I'll say it again- there's gap integrity at the LOS!

Players don't run out of their gap to an open spot. However, if a player dominates (push back) his gap and pushes it two yards vertically, it's OK to go horizontal a little bit.

That's just how it is.

[HighCalebR]

5 minutes ago, Donzo said:

Again, as stated, there is gap integrity at the LOS... I'll say it again- there's gap integrity at the LOS!

Players don't run out of their gap to an open spot. However, if a player dominates (push back) his gap and pushes it two yards vertically, it's OK to go horizontal a little bit.

That's just how it is.

Ok you dont understand line play. Got it.

[craig]

On 5/25/2020 at 11:08 AM, Shanedorf said:

Clark               879 snaps,  83 % of Def Snaps for the year

Lowry             642 snaps   61 %
Lancaster      381               36%
Adams           189               18%
Keke                 94                 9 %
F. Brown had a few

....Now GB brought in 2 vet FAs in Gerald Willis and Treyvon Hester to compete for snaps with Lowry, Lancaster, Adams.
I'd still like to see somebody added who is good enough to spell Clark more frequently and not be a liability

The numbers for those five guys combine for 207%.  Not sure whether that number will, or should, go up or go down?  

1.  Why it might go Up:  Our run defense was bad.  So one way to improve the run-defense would be to play more d-linemen more to try to suppress it?  2nd, last year, Fadol Brown wasn't very good; Keke as a raw rookie wasn't very usable; and Adams got hurt early and didn't play effectively.  So while we opened the season with 6 DL on the roster, in practice it was 4, and once Adams got hurt, it kinda simplified to three-plus-Adams.  Assuming Keke is now used in the rotation, that Adams is healthier and somewhat more favorable on the anti-awful spectrum, and that Hester is more servicable and anti-awful than was Brown, there might be a larger and fresher pool of legs to draw from.

2.  Why it might go Down:  Our DL group isn't that hot.  So perhaps reducing snaps to below-average guys and playing more talented football players is desirable?  Both Clark and Lowry played too many snaps.  So resting them more might help.  Pettine noted that his statistical analysis was generally favorable using Z inside, and that he envisioned Gary being available for that as well.  He also noted that Gary scored well in his run-contain statistics.  So it may be that Gary and Z will replace a bunch of the Lowry and Adams snaps, perhaps to good effect?  

Keke is obviously a crucial variable.  So is Lowry.  Lowry played so many snaps, and he's not necessarily bad, as a 3rd/4th guy.  But he's kinda lacking as a #2 guy:  he's not really a force in the pass-rush, and he's not very strong or physical in the run game.  Nice guy and great-effort hustler, but he could benefit from perhaps reducing his snaps and being more forceful and powerful in those he does play?  Not sure how physical or powerful Keke can be in the run game, either; but he might have a lot of the type of athletic qualities that Lowry has, but perhaps with a little more burst in pass rush?  I have no idea, but *IF* he ended up splitting Lowry's snaps, and perhaps played at a comparable or variably better level, things might be somewhat better overall?  

Coming off of 2018, there had been some thought that Fadol Brown might be an NFL guy.  WE ended up getting very little from him.  Hester isn't going to be excellent, we know that.  But it's not impossible that an experienced veteran guy like that might be fairly strong in run-defense, and while he might not be much of a playmaker, perhaps he'd be able to hold the line and provide some gap integrity?  Beats me.  But there can be some value in getting JAG play?  Sometimes on the awful-to-great continuum, a JAG can be sub-average but still provide some anti-awful improvement?  

[craig]

2 hours ago, HighCalebR said:

He literally said it's ok if you get the pushback and your head is in the wrong hole, because theyre looking for the positive movement at the line of scrimmage, then the LB comes in, overlaps into what WAS the DL's hole to clean up the play.

It's exactly how it works. A man isn't a gap.

agree, I thought that was an interesting comment by Pettine.  I didn't think it was dumb, either.  A lot of good plays happen when guys are getting some pushback, even if that results in some deformation of the line of scrimmage and creates some gaps.  The key, of course, is that things are sufficiently well-defined so that a LB can come in, cover the hole, and stop the runner.  Our typical one-ILB-and-a-safety personnel didn't consistently accomplish that effectively.   

Then later, he was asked about his unusually high use of dime.  He coach-speaked his answer, including the shortage at ILB; but he also kinda reasoned why he likes the flexibility of the extra safety.  So, it's not entirely clear why if anything might change this year.  Maybe they'll use more 2-ILB sets behind the DL, to fill those pushback holes?  Or maybe not?  he wasn't that apologetic about the run defense:  he seemed to acknowledge that there are pros-and-cons to everything, and that use of his kinda-run-vulnerable defense supported a 14-win season.  So not clear he's going to change that, greatly?  But who knows, maybe Kirksey will do well in that?  Or maybe they will use more 2-ILB sets?  

I'm crazy, I know, but I admit I enjoyed some of the brief Clay Matthews at ILB experience.  He was fast, forceful, and aggressive at filling in those holes.  He might have looked pretty good in Pettine's defense and been a really good run-game defender.  

Not sure how often Pettine would ever consider using only 4 secondary guys, and going with an old-fashioned 3-4.  hardly ever.  But I admit I have wondered whether it might be interesting to play a 3-4 with Gary standing up inside.  If the opposition wants to run into that, and our d-line got some pushback, I'd love to see Gary smashing into an emerging hole and blasting a running back who thought that was going to be a lane.  That might be much more conducive to his skill-set, and it might be a different look than having a safety do it.  Probably makes no sense.  But if opponent passed he could also pass-rush up the middle.  Stupid idea with a million vulnerabilities, I'm sure.  But Pettine mention of using Gary or Z inside, just made me wonder how that would work if that was in conjunction with 3 DL besides, as opposed to being in-place-of a DL.  

[AlexGreen#20]

2 hours ago, Donzo said:

 

Shees, there's a lot of wrong info in your post, especially about Rodgers. I just quoted part of your post. I only quoted the parts I was going to comment on. I'll hit on Rodgers last.

The D-line won inside on early downs a lot last year, especially when they had enough players in position to cover all the gaps.They also had a few bad games against the Eagles, 9ers and Chargers. But, for most of the season, they were solid to good most of the time.

Lancaster showed he can do a lot more than just anchor against a double team. His FF & FR against the Chiefs was huge. He was a menace against the Broncos and Redskins; he also had real good game against the Bears in GB. Heck, he even had a couple sacks last year. All in all, he's a good player for 25-30 snaps a game... He did kinda wear out last year after that Bear game in GB. He wasn't too productive the last couple games or in the playoffs. This type of thing is common for young DL. We can definitely expect an improvement with his end of the season stamina.

There's a lot more hope for improvement than Keke- a lot more!... Adams is going to either play like he did the last half of 2018 and the first game in Chicago last year, or be replaced. Just that is a big improvement over the snaps Adams took with his hurt shoulder after that game in Chicago. Lowry and Lancaster can and should play better this year. And, we have no idea if they have lack depth or not, especially not "in a big way"... The depth could actually be pretty good.

For the Rodgers nonsense, I just don't get it?!? That's the type of BS you expect from Bear & Viking trolls or Florio or Baylis. Rodgers was just as great in 2015, 2016 and 2017 as he was from 2010 - 2014. Heck, I think 2016 & 2017 were his greatest seasons. Maybe not his best, but his greatest. I'll go into detail after touching on 2018. For 2018, he may have a had his greatest game of his career to open the season in 2018. Then had to play the rest of the season on a shredded knee while throwing the ball to a receiving corp that would be lucky to rank in the top 25 in NFL. Adams by himself would probably get the group to 25th, but after him- eek!

2016 was "run the table" season. How any Packer fan can bellyache about Rodgers in 2016 is beyond me. It was truly a legendary year. They'll be making movies about it and signing songs about it for hundreds of years. I'll leave it at that... In 2017, Rodgers was incredible as usual.  I think his first game was so-so, then he was off and running. The thing is- he broke his freakin' collarbone!.. Geez O petes, how this is not understood by Packer fans is beyond me. I'm just going by memory, but I recall him playing fantastic just before getting hurt in Minny. I think he destroyed the Bears then had that huge game in Dallas to beat the Cowboys. Then, the injury.

To end the 2017, he went out and tried to save the season and played with broken collarbone in Carolina- a broken freaking collarbone!. He didn't play well. I think it was his only game with 3-INTs. He was rusty, and had a broken freaking collar bone!.. It was truly an amazing effort and one of the guttiest performances in the history of the NFL... I believe he had a 98 passer rating for the year, and not counting the game he played with a broken freaking collar bone!.. His rating was 108 or so.

My Packer group had a lot of discussion about Rodgers the last few years, so I remember a lot of it. I can breakdown 2015, too. It was another great year for Rodgers... But, I've already made my point, so I wont do it now in this thread about the DL. Again, there's lots of good promise for the DL this year.

By what basis were we good on early downs? Overall we were 23rd in yards, 21st in TDs, 25th in Y/A, 23rd in Y/G, 31st in EPA, 23rd in Run Defense DVOA, 27th in Short Yardage Success Rate, 31st in Stuff Rate. By no measure were we good against the run last year. Granted, we played light as hell both personnel wise and bodies in the box wise, but come on, our run defense was bad on every down. 

You can argue that being bad against the run isn't the worst thing in the world if it allows you to be excellent against the pass, but to say that they won a lot is just wrong. This team was bad against the run.

Tyler Lancaster's FF against the Chiefs was pure dumb luck. Shady was holding the ball like a moron and Lancaster blindly reached out in attempt to get off the block and bumped his arm. He didn't beat a man, he didn't record a strip sack. It was Shady being dumb. Just about every fumble recovery is dumb luck. The thing bounced right to him. And for everything that he showed against the Chiefs, he played 11 snaps in that game. Against good offenses that pass a lot, Lancaster shouldn't play.

Lancaster wasn't a menace against anybody last year. He was a below average run plug that offers nothing in the passing game (1 hurry, 1.5 sacks per PFR), and if I remember correctly all 3 were unblocked rather than a clean win. Lancaster is what he is. He isn't going to all of a sudden develop a pass rush and become an every down guy. He's not a guy that gets great push. He's a run plug. Maybe with a year more of developing his game, he might turn into an average run plug, but acting like Lancaster is a guy that's going to move the needle on a team is nuts. We could cut Tyler Lancaster right now and have an equivalent piece tomorrow at this time. 

Keke is a lottery ticket. I know we all got excited watching him beat dudes that were starters in the XFL last preseason, but expecting anything out of him is ridiculous.

Hurt shoulder or not, Adams was horrendous last year. Genuinely unplayable for huge stretches of the season. 

That still leaves us with a rotation of Clark, hoping Lowry bounces back, and a handful of lottery ticket dudes on a defense that plays a 3DL nickel.

+++

I get that Rodgers didn't have much receiving talent in 2015, but nobody was "great" in a year where they had a lower passer rating than: Andy Dalton, Carson Palmer, Kirk Cousins, Cam Newton, Tyrod Taylor, Matthew Stafford, Alex Smith, Eli Manning, and Josh McCown, and beat out Jay Cutler, Marcus Mariota, and Brian Hoyer by less than 2 points.

Rodgers was great in 2016.

Rodgers in 2017, was way up and down. He started out with two trash games (He got carried by the defense to a 17-9 win over Seattle, and threw a garbage time TD to make a drubbing by the Falcons look more respectable than it was (34-23), he then had a solid game against the Bengals and two really good games against the Bears and Cowboys

Aaron Rodgers passer rating by year since 2015 looks like:

2015: 15th

2016: 4th

2017: 8th

2018: 13th

2019: 12th

Over 5 years, that's an average of 10.4. That is not an elite passer, and it's not like removing 2017 makes those numbers better on a small sample size basis. 

+++

 

 

 

 

[HighCalebR]

@craig I don't really expect much to change, HOPEFULLY, we'll be more flexible if games like Philly/SF happen where he gets a little heavier in the box. If it's working GREAT, if not, switch it up.

He's not wrong it did help us get to 14 wins, but was also a significant contributor to the losses. I expect the defense to hold their own this year again. 

 

[MrBobGray]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Good stuff

Bless you.  I did not have the energy level to type a response to that.

[AlexGreen#20]

34 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

Bless you.  I did not have the energy level to type a response to that.

Not gonna lie, I actually gave up like 3 times.

[MrBobGray]

20 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You think we're switching this nickel up to go back to the 2-4?

Watching the 3-3 get run so much this year with Clark and two dudes really makes me hate our DL group even more. It's one thing if you're just hiding 1 DL, most teams are. Trying to hide 2 DL isn't an easy task. 

+++

I think you almost have to make tier distinctions with the back end of this DL group. Lowry is much better than Lancaster who performed much better than Adams last year.

I also think you're nuts to expect anything out of Keke though. 

+++

The biggest fix to this group would be to just trust the Corners. It's one thing to field a weak DL when you're occasionally playing an extra guy in the box. It's a different ball game when they're going to play every rep with a light box 

Did they run that much 3-3 toward the end of the year?  Felt like they ran base, a 2-4-5 with a DB at LB, and some pressure packages and that was most of it.  I'm sort of skimming through the end of the year All-22's now just to see, but I'm not seeing much of it.  I trust your sense on this more though as I definitely haven't looked into Pettine's defense this year like you did.  In either case, tt's hard to put a front together when you have one ILB and one DT you actually want on the field, and the rest of both groups you're hiding.  This team really needs the depth at one or both of those positions to really outperform expectations, or they're going to be fighting all year to hide the middle of the defense.

Yeah that's fair, I agree with the tiers and your placement.  I didn't mean to insinuate they're all the same level of player; Lowry is a borderline starter+ depending on match-up, while Adams is a hilarious liability.  Just that the depth as a group is weak but surviveable if you're the Chiefs, but concerning if you expect the offense to play similarly to last year.  And I wouldn't say I expect anything out of Keke necessarily; the comment about penciling him in as a role player was more about where I expect him to be on the depth chart.  He played well enough in preseason and TC that sight unseen, he should be around that level this year if he takes an average year 2 jump.  He may totally fail to provide anything, but I'm just talking about my hopes at this stage.  I like his hands and his feet and his ability to use them in sync, and his frame already looks like an NFL DT.  No idea if he'll maximize his talent at all, he's definitely a lottery ticket, just a somewhat likelier one than, say, Ento at DB.

I'd be fine with them leaning on the secondary in general.  At some point you gotta let your little birds fly, and I think you're less likely to lose trusting them than Lowry/Lancaster.  Quick tangent - personally, I do kinda want to see them just do something wild, like on the off-chance a fringe EDGE guy hits fully play a 5-1-5 nickle but going Ramsey/Gary/Clark/Z/Preston, walk Amos into the box and just run stunts all day and hope Kirksey/Amos can clean it up.  OK probably not really, but I do feel that if they play more 3-3 this year it's going to be really baffling unless Gary is the 3 and we just accept the run game losses. 

Anyway, there's a lot of athletic talent inside and out, I agree it's probably time to crowd the box a bit more and let your freaks run around behind them.  Tough to block the studs up front in a heavy box, and this secondary goes 4.38, 4.36, 4.39 (I'm enough of a homer to slide a pro day time in for my boy Smash, sue me), and 4.41 for the starting four; if Hollman can continue his growth and somehow be good enough to come in and move Alexander inside in the nickle, then you can add 4.38 to that.  Like, you can't really be worried about this group getting burned deep as a rule, and Alexander/King both have legit man cover skills.  Yes, if you put them on islands more or ask Savage to Centerfield in man, you'll probably give up a few more big plays for a bit as things get settled, but again that's the right place to put the weight.  Don't ask your weak DL group to carry the weight your big boy DB group should be carrying.

Edited May 27, 2020 by MrBobGray

[AlexGreen#20]

4 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

Did they run that much 3-3 toward the end of the year?  Felt like they ran base, a 2-4-5 with a DB at LB, and some pressure packages and that was most of it.  I'm sort of skimming through the end of the year All-22's now just to see, but I'm not seeing much of it.  I trust your sense on this more though as I definitely haven't looked into Pettine's defense this year like you did.  In either case, tt's hard to put a front together when you have one ILB and one DT you actually want on the field, and the rest of both groups you're hiding.  This team really needs the depth at one or both of those positions to really outperform expectations, or they're going to be fighting all year to hide the middle of the defense.

Yeah that's fair, I agree with the tiers and your placement.  I didn't mean to insinuate they're all the same level of player; Lowry is a borderline starter+ depending on match-up, while Adams is a hilarious liability.  Just that the depth as a group is weak but surviveable if you're the Chiefs, but concerning if you expect the offense to play similarly to last year.  And I wouldn't say I expect anything out of Keke necessarily; the comment about penciling him in as a role player was more about where I expect him to be on the depth chart.  He played well enough in preseason and TC that sight unseen, he should be around that level this year if he takes an average year 2 jump.  He may totally fail to provide anything, but I'm just talking about my hopes at this stage.  I like his hands and his feet and his ability to use them in sync, and his frame already looks like an NFL DT.  No idea if he'll maximize his talent at all, he's definitely a lottery ticket, just a somewhat likelier one than, say, Ento at DB.

I'd be fine with them leaning on the secondary in general.  At some point you gotta let your little birds fly, and I think you're less likely to lose trusting them than Lowry/Lancaster.  Quick tangent - personally, I do kinda want to see them just do something wild, like on the off-chance a fringe EDGE guy hits fully play a 5-1-5 nickle but going Ramsey/Gary/Clark/Z/Preston, walk Amos into the box and just run stunts all day and hope Kirksey/Amos can clean it up.  OK probably not really, but I do feel that if they play more 3-3 this year it's going to be really baffling unless Gary is the 3 and we just accept the run game losses. 

Anyway, there's a lot of athletic talent inside and out, I agree it's probably time to crowd the box a bit more and let your freaks run around behind them.  Tough to block the studs up front in a heavy box, and this secondary goes 4.38, 4.36, 4.39 (I'm enough of a homer to slide a pro day time in for my boy Smash, sue me), and 4.41 for the starting four; if Hollman can continue his growth and somehow be good enough to come in and move Alexander to the nickle, then you can add 4.38 to that.  Like, you can't really be worried about this group getting burned deep as a rule, and Alexander/King both have legit man cover skills.  Yes, if you put them on islands more or ask Savage to Centerfield in man, you'll probably give up a few more big plays for a bit as things get settled, but again that's the right place to put the weight.  Don't ask your weak DL group to carry the weight your big boy DB group should be carrying.

Nah, we played the hell out of that dime. I've seen 52% of snaps in the dime posted places and while I'm a little skeptical of that 40%+ wouldn't shock me at all. 

We played about 1050 defensive snaps this year. BJ Goodson played 256. I think we played like 120 of base defense and then split the other 440ish of nickel like 300 of 3-3-5 and 140 of 2-4. Lancaster got 381 to Goodson's 256 which kinda confirms my theory. Both guys would have played equivalent base snaps and neither would have played a Dime snap. 

The bold is what I've been trying to say for a while now and you put it more concisely than I have. There are fundamental limitations to this roster at the moment stemming from a lack of Front 6 talent. If you have a strong back end, leaning so heavy on that limited front group isn't the best recipe for success.

[MrBobGray]

7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Nah, we played the hell out of that dime. I've seen 52% of snaps in the dime posted places and while I'm a little skeptical of that 40%+ wouldn't shock me at all. 

We played about 1050 defensive snaps this year. BJ Goodson played 256. I think we played like 120 of base defense and then split the other 440ish of nickel like 300 of 3-3-5 and 140 of 2-4. Lancaster got 381 to Goodson's 256 which kinda confirms my theory. Both guys would have played equivalent base snaps and neither would have played a Dime snap. 

The bold is what I've been trying to say for a while now and you put it more concisely than I have. There are fundamental limitations to this roster at the moment stemming from a lack of Front 6 talent. If you have a strong back end, leaning so heavy on that limited front group isn't the best recipe for success.

God they really played that much of Lancaster in the nickle?  I feel vaguely ill right now.  He's got his role but that's a real issue if he was playing that many snaps when a pass is being threatened.  Of course, it sure doesn't help that despite all my stanning for Adams back in TC he was an absolute trash fire on the field.  Then every fifth rep he'd inexplicibly look like a starting DT, then right back to falling over the damn place like he had an inner ear disorder.  You sure couldn't play him at the 3 and Clark at nose, so it sort of had to be Lancaster at nose Clark at the 3.  If you wanted to play that 3-3.  If.  Sure as hell seems like it makes more sense play 2-4, run Z/Lowry/Clark/Preston and hope to god one of Summers/Burks/Greene can just not be a complete disaster in the middle.  Play with Sullivan and/or Amos in the box, depending on the down and distance; let Savage run around behind your cover guys.  I realize I'm literally just going back around again on what we've already said, but it's Wednesday and I'm avoiding the kids for a few minutes while my brain transitions out of work mode.

[Golfman]

13 hours ago, packfanfb said:

The guy who played in Detroit last year was injured to the point where the team shut him down. This of course assumes he's healthy. 

So a guy who is 31 years old and missed most of the last two seasons to serious injuries is your guy. I respect your opinion, but think that would be like throwing money down the drain by bringing him in. 

That is an easy guy to pass on IMO. 

[AlexGreen#20]

10 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

God they really played that much of Lancaster in the nickle?  I feel vaguely ill right now.  He's got his role but that's a real issue if he was playing that many snaps when a pass is being threatened.  Of course, it sure doesn't help that despite all my stanning for Adams back in TC he was an absolute trash fire on the field.  Then every fifth rep he'd inexplicibly look like a starting DT, then right back to falling over the damn place like he had an inner ear disorder.  You sure couldn't play him at the 3 and Clark at nose, so it sort of had to be Lancaster at nose Clark at the 3.  If you wanted to play that 3-3.  If.  Sure as hell seems like it makes more sense play 2-4, run Z/Lowry/Clark/Preston and hope to god one of Summers/Burks/Greene can just not be a complete disaster in the middle.  Play with Sullivan and/or Amos in the box, depending on the down and distance; let Savage run around behind your cover guys.  I realize I'm literally just going back around again on what we've already said, but it's Wednesday and I'm avoiding the kids for a few minutes while my brain transitions out of work mode.

It was the thing I hated most about this defense. Pettine doesn't like to blitz except on pressure downs, so more often than not, our nickel package had Tyler Lancaster rushing the passer and Preston Smith dropping into coverage. It's a tremendous waste of talent.

First Quarter of the Seahawks Playoff Game for reference:

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3-3 Nickel. Hard to tell on this play because it's actually a play action rollout, but I'm pretty sure Preston is dropping here.

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3-3 Nickel. Run play

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3-3 Nickel. Preston dropping

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1-4 Dime. No Lancaster

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Base 3-4. Run Play

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Base 3-4. Run Play

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3-3 Nickel. Run Play

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Base 3-4 against the 13 personnel. I'm triggered.

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3-3 Nickel. Preston Drops

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3-3 Nickel. Preston Rushes

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2-4 Nickel. Run Play. Oren Burks actually got a rep here. 1 of 9 he would get this game. This is a 2nd and 10. I think this is just Pettine's version of a semi-pressure package. 

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1-4 Dime

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by AlexGreen#20