2020 Green Bay Packers Defensive Line

[packfanfb]

If Snacks isn't available, just take the simple route and resign Daniels. He clearly wants to come back and play in GB and probably signs for next to nothing on an incentive-laden deal. I don't care if the guy is 5 foot 5 inches tall, he'd instantly be our 2nd-3rd best DL on the team depending on whether we get 2018 or 2019 Lowry.

[AlexGreen#20]

8 hours ago, Rodjahs12 said:

Word is snacks wants another payday and most teams don’t think his bad year last year was a fluke. Could very well be a guy you don’t see get a look until week 6 when someone’s line is decimated with injuries. 

Which is what it should be. The dude's body is beat to hell much like Veldheer's. Saving the pounding on his body early on in the season so he's still functional by the playoffs is going to matter.

[Shanedorf]

There's a challenge in waiting from the team POV, something better might come along for that particular player.
I'd sign the DL and manage snaps in TC, during practice and even games in September/October with an eye to being productive Dec. - Feb.
But I still want him on the team, in the meetings etc.

Packer facilities are now open in a limited fashion, so any visits/physicals are now possible

Edited May 26, 2020 by Shanedorf

[Joe]

5 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Which is what it should be. The dude's body is beat to hell much like Veldheer's. Saving the pounding on his body early on in the season so he's still functional by the playoffs is going to matter.

Do we want someone who thinks they have something left in the tank when their play and the scouting reports say otherwise? That's why I'm out on Snacks.

 

3 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Packer facilities are now open in a limited fashion, so any visits/physicals are now possible

So maybe we should hold off on this topic until things have cycled through.

[Joe]

FWIW, I found an old scouting report for Willis.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/gerald-willis

[MrBobGray]

Here's the thing, and not to harp on a dead drum I believe the idiom is, but how I feel about this group is affected a lot by how Rodgers performs.  This is a play from ahead group all the way.  If you told me we'd have 2010-2014 Rodgers I'd be fine with this group, especially with how thiccc the OLB group is pretty much to a man.  Clark is a stud against both the run and the pass, and I can live with some combination of Lowry/Adams/Keke at the 3T in the early downs until we're up big because Rodgers is carving them up.  Pressure package should be nuts with Gary/Z/Clark/Preston, and given what we've seen from Keke in year one I think penciling him in for a role as a rotational pass rusher is reasonable.  

But right now, we have 2015-2019 Rodgers.  This is not a team that you feel good about winning inside on early downs on the regular, and the longer they have the play the run the worse it gets because they have Clark + zero guys you feel good about anchoring against a double more than once or twice a game. Plus Lancaster who can anchor against the double but can't do literally anything else.  The team needs Rodgers to return to form because this group could absolutely sink the team again this year if Rodgers continues to force the team to play into their weakness.

I do think he'll get better though.  Second year in an offense alone counts for something, and I think there's an intriguing group of weapons this year.  I'll trade Graham for Funchess in the receiving game, + ESB getting back and MVS hopefully out of whatever dog house he's in.  Given that somewhat optimistic prediction, I think this group can get it done, but it'll be hard to watch.  The only real hope for improvement is Keke, but I don't know that I have a real good sense of him.  He looked like a man among boys at times in the preseason, but I have zero idea what his quality of competition on those snaps was.  He certainly looks the part both in frame and movement skills, but I've learned enough hard lessons just assuming a young DL will have a second year jump.  If he does the unlikely and takes a real year 2 jump, this group could actually be a positive with an improved Rodgers; Clark + a legit 3T with Z/Preston outside is going to win with regularity regardless of the opposition.  They still lack depth in a big way but just need to be able to let Z/Gary cover for that inside.  Lancaster is perfectly fine spelling Clark on 25-30% of snaps, if lackluster, and Lowry as a rotational depth guy is actually a plus.  

If, if, if though.  Feels a lot more likely this whole thing is going to be a razor's edge come playoff time once again.

[Shanedorf]

23 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

the longer they have the play the run the worse it gets because they have Clark + zero guys you feel good about anchoring against a double more than once or twice a game.

I always appreciate the insight, thx.
One comment is that in years past, the OC of our opponents was asked by the DC of our opponents....to run the ball and keep AR on the sidelines
So you have a double whammy here - a Packers defense built to play with a lead AND an opposing offense deploying a  run strategy to wear down the Packers DL. We've also seen a slight shift in the pass- crazy offenses with more focus on running games as the pendulum swings the other way

I think the Packers have to find ways to win with different strategies and we simply don't have the girth to handle a run-focused team. Philly, the Chargers and one other unnamed team bludgeoned the Packers with a strong run game - I think its fair to expect more of the same regardless of who is under center

That's why I've advocated for a massive guy like Harrison, even though he's a bit limited in the passing game

[Toddfather]

1 hour ago, MrBobGray said:

Here's the thing, and not to harp on a dead drum I believe the idiom is, but how I feel about this group is affected a lot by how Rodgers performs.  This is a play from ahead group all the way.  If you told me we'd have 2010-2014 Rodgers I'd be fine with this group, especially with how thiccc the OLB group is pretty much to a man.  Clark is a stud against both the run and the pass, and I can live with some combination of Lowry/Adams/Keke at the 3T in the early downs until we're up big because Rodgers is carving them up.  Pressure package should be nuts with Gary/Z/Clark/Preston, and given what we've seen from Keke in year one I think penciling him in for a role as a rotational pass rusher is reasonable.  

But right now, we have 2015-2019 Rodgers.  This is not a team that you feel good about winning inside on early downs on the regular, and the longer they have the play the run the worse it gets because they have Clark + zero guys you feel good about anchoring against a double more than once or twice a game. Plus Lancaster who can anchor against the double but can't do literally anything else.  The team needs Rodgers to return to form because this group could absolutely sink the team again this year if Rodgers continues to force the team to play into their weakness.

I do think he'll get better though.  Second year in an offense alone counts for something, and I think there's an intriguing group of weapons this year.  I'll trade Graham for Funchess in the receiving game, + ESB getting back and MVS hopefully out of whatever dog house he's in.  Given that somewhat optimistic prediction, I think this group can get it done, but it'll be hard to watch.  The only real hope for improvement is Keke, but I don't know that I have a real good sense of him.  He looked like a man among boys at times in the preseason, but I have zero idea what his quality of competition on those snaps was.  He certainly looks the part both in frame and movement skills, but I've learned enough hard lessons just assuming a young DL will have a second year jump.  If he does the unlikely and takes a real year 2 jump, this group could actually be a positive with an improved Rodgers; Clark + a legit 3T with Z/Preston outside is going to win with regularity regardless of the opposition.  They still lack depth in a big way but just need to be able to let Z/Gary cover for that inside.  Lancaster is perfectly fine spelling Clark on 25-30% of snaps, if lackluster, and Lowry as a rotational depth guy is actually a plus.  

If, if, if though.  Feels a lot more likely this whole thing is going to be a razor's edge come playoff time once again.

The thing is the team with MLF is moving away from the kind of offense that the 2010 - 2014 Rodgers played in and excelled. Honestly I am fine with it. I hope he starts taking the Brady way and takes what is given to him. Sure still some big plays, but I think the only way we play from ahead is if he becomes a game manager, and lets the running game set up the pass. The question is, will he be able to do that? 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Toddfather

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, MrBobGray said:

Here's the thing, and not to harp on a dead drum I believe the idiom is, but how I feel about this group is affected a lot by how Rodgers performs.  This is a play from ahead group all the way.  If you told me we'd have 2010-2014 Rodgers I'd be fine with this group, especially with how thiccc the OLB group is pretty much to a man.  Clark is a stud against both the run and the pass, and I can live with some combination of Lowry/Adams/Keke at the 3T in the early downs until we're up big because Rodgers is carving them up.  Pressure package should be nuts with Gary/Z/Clark/Preston, and given what we've seen from Keke in year one I think penciling him in for a role as a rotational pass rusher is reasonable.  

But right now, we have 2015-2019 Rodgers.  This is not a team that you feel good about winning inside on early downs on the regular, and the longer they have the play the run the worse it gets because they have Clark + zero guys you feel good about anchoring against a double more than once or twice a game. Plus Lancaster who can anchor against the double but can't do literally anything else.  The team needs Rodgers to return to form because this group could absolutely sink the team again this year if Rodgers continues to force the team to play into their weakness.

I do think he'll get better though.  Second year in an offense alone counts for something, and I think there's an intriguing group of weapons this year.  I'll trade Graham for Funchess in the receiving game, + ESB getting back and MVS hopefully out of whatever dog house he's in.  Given that somewhat optimistic prediction, I think this group can get it done, but it'll be hard to watch.  The only real hope for improvement is Keke, but I don't know that I have a real good sense of him.  He looked like a man among boys at times in the preseason, but I have zero idea what his quality of competition on those snaps was.  He certainly looks the part both in frame and movement skills, but I've learned enough hard lessons just assuming a young DL will have a second year jump.  If he does the unlikely and takes a real year 2 jump, this group could actually be a positive with an improved Rodgers; Clark + a legit 3T with Z/Preston outside is going to win with regularity regardless of the opposition.  They still lack depth in a big way but just need to be able to let Z/Gary cover for that inside.  Lancaster is perfectly fine spelling Clark on 25-30% of snaps, if lackluster, and Lowry as a rotational depth guy is actually a plus.  

If, if, if though.  Feels a lot more likely this whole thing is going to be a razor's edge come playoff time once again.

You think we're switching this nickel up to go back to the 2-4?

Watching the 3-3 get run so much this year with Clark and two dudes really makes me hate our DL group even more. It's one thing if you're just hiding 1 DL, most teams are. Trying to hide 2 DL isn't an easy task. 

+++

I think you almost have to make tier distinctions with the back end of this DL group. Lowry is much better than Lancaster who performed much better than Adams last year.

I also think you're nuts to expect anything out of Keke though. 

+++

The biggest fix to this group would be to just trust the Corners. It's one thing to field a weak DL when you're occasionally playing an extra guy in the box. It's a different ball game when they're going to play every rep with a light box 

[Golfman]

23 hours ago, packfanfb said:

If Snacks isn't available, just take the simple route and resign Daniels. He clearly wants to come back and play in GB and probably signs for next to nothing on an incentive-laden deal. I don't care if the guy is 5 foot 5 inches tall, he'd instantly be our 2nd-3rd best DL on the team depending on whether we get 2018 or 2019 Lowry.

Assuming you get the 2017 version of Daniels because the guy who played in Detroit last year was terrible. He was so bad the Lions don't want him back. Love Mike Daniels, but don't want any part of him in Green Bay this year. It's a recipe for disaster. 

[packfanfb]

47 minutes ago, Golfman said:

Assuming you get the 2017 version of Daniels because the guy who played in Detroit last year was terrible. He was so bad the Lions don't want him back. Love Mike Daniels, but don't want any part of him in Green Bay this year. It's a recipe for disaster. 

The guy who played in Detroit last year was injured to the point where the team shut him down. This of course assumes he's healthy. 

[spilltray]

It doesn't have to be an explosive offense, but it needs to be efficient. If you can consistently score points that applies some pressure. If you can grind the clock too, that adds more. With the pieces the Packers already had, it could be possible. We need to see it come together. Yes the run defense needs to play better. We need the 2018 Lowry not the 2019 version for example, but it's not a hopeless situation. If the run D can be OK, not awful, the pass D could be great. If the offense is consistent and efficient that is a combo that can win.

 

Yes everyone needs to step up and play to their strengths. Things need to go right. It's still one of the better situations to be in right now. Every team from the inside especially has some major questions.

[Donzo]

On 5/24/2020 at 10:55 AM, Shanedorf said:

( I'll need some help in completing this one )

 

1-Tech

Kenny Clark, Tyler Lancaster
 

3-Tech

Kenny Clark, Kingsley Keke, Za'Darius Smith, Rashan Gary, Trayvon Hester, Gerald Willis

5-Tech

Dean Lowry, Kingsley Keke

 

1-Tech

Kenny Clark, Tyler Lancaster, Montravious Adams & Gerald Willis
 

3-Tech

Kenny Clark, Kingsley Keke, Za'Darius Smith (S), Rashan Gary (S), Trayvon Hester, Montravious Adams & Gerald Willis

 

5-Tech

Dean Lowry, Kingsley Keke, Trayvon Hester, Za'Darius Smith (S), Rashan Gary (S).

(S)- sub packages

[Donzo]

On 5/25/2020 at 12:08 PM, Shanedorf said:

Clark               879 snaps,  83 % of Def Snaps for the year

Lowry             642 snaps   61 %
Lancaster      381               36%
Adams           189               18%
Keke                 94                 9 %
F. Brown had a few

 

Way too many for Clark. He needs to lose 100 snaps and he needs to be off special teams. I think he got another 100+ snaps there, too.

Lowry a little less. Lancaster is about right. Adams either needs to play like he did to close 2018, and pick up snaps, or lose all his snaps. Hester can play in and around 175 snaps at a decent level; he grades out OK... The wildcard is Keke. If he can be the 2nd best DL and get 500 snaps, the Packer will have a good DL. Probably a very good DL. If he's just so-so, then we'll have to see how it plays out.

[Donzo]

On 5/25/2020 at 3:47 PM, HighCalebR said:

Except Pettine isn't preaching gap integrity. He prefers a pushback at the line and the LB to overlap that and make the play. His words.

That's not how it works.

There absolutely is gap integrity at the LS- very important. If a player dominates his gap (push back), it's OK if he goes horizontal to make a stronger play. It works very well when all the players are on the same page.