2020 Green Bay Packers Defensive Line

[coachbuns]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

It was the thing I hated most about this defense. Pettine doesn't like to blitz except on pressure downs, so more often than not, our nickel package had Tyler Lancaster rushing the passer and Preston Smith dropping into coverage. It's a tremendous waste of talent.

First Quarter of the Seahawks Playoff Game for reference:

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3-3 Nickel. Hard to tell on this play because it's actually a play action rollout, but I'm pretty sure Preston is dropping here.

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3-3 Nickel. Run play

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3-3 Nickel. Preston dropping

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1-4 Dime. No Lancaster

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Base 3-4. Run Play

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Base 3-4. Run Play

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3-3 Nickel. Run Play

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Base 3-4 against the 13 personnel. I'm triggered.

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3-3 Nickel. Preston Drops

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3-3 Nickel. Preston Rushes

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2-4 Nickel. Run Play. Oren Burks actually got a rep here. 1 of 9 he would get this game. This is a 2nd and 10. I think this is just Pettine's version of a semi-pressure package. 

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1-4 Dime

 

 

Totally agree.  Smith dropping into coverage in Pettine's defensive scheme is offensive.  Matter of fact, Pettine and his overall scheme needs some revamping this year or good bye.  Granted, he could use another body or two for the defense but most other NFL teams have issues too.  Use the damn players at/where they're best at.  

[snackattack]

@AlexGreen#20 what defensive personnel grouping would you prefer we run against 13 personnel?

[MrBobGray]

6 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

It was the thing I hated most about this defense. Pettine doesn't like to blitz except on pressure downs, so more often than not, our nickel package had Tyler Lancaster rushing the passer and Preston Smith dropping into coverage. It's a tremendous waste of talent.

First Quarter of the Seahawks Playoff Game for reference:

+++

3-3 Nickel. Hard to tell on this play because it's actually a play action rollout, but I'm pretty sure Preston is dropping here.

+++

3-3 Nickel. Run play

+++

3-3 Nickel. Preston dropping

+++

1-4 Dime. No Lancaster

+++

Base 3-4. Run Play

+++

Base 3-4. Run Play

+++

3-3 Nickel. Run Play

+++

Base 3-4 against the 13 personnel. I'm triggered.

+++

3-3 Nickel. Preston Drops

+++

3-3 Nickel. Preston Rushes

+++

2-4 Nickel. Run Play. Oren Burks actually got a rep here. 1 of 9 he would get this game. This is a 2nd and 10. I think this is just Pettine's version of a semi-pressure package. 

+++

1-4 Dime

 

 

 

[AlexGreen#20]

2 hours ago, snackattack said:

@AlexGreen#20 what defensive personnel grouping would you prefer we run against 13 personnel?

3-5

[AlexGreen#20]

24 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

 

My exact attitude towards this. It's the worst.

[MrBobGray]

3 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

My exact attitude towards this. It's the worst.

I almost felt bad only leaving a flippant response to such a thorough comment, but what else can you say?  There's simply no reason to play the 3-3, not with any level of consistency.  You should be dropping Preston a couple of times a game max, and NEVER so you can have Lancaster rushing.  I confess I don't really understand the defense Pettine went with this year.  Hopefully next year he comes to his senses; the comments about Gary being more involved in the run game tells me (I hope) that they plan on running a more athletic nickle front even against the run.

[AlexGreen#20]

33 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I almost felt bad only leaving a flippant response to such a thorough comment, but what else can you say?  There's simply no reason to play the 3-3, not with any level of consistency.  You should be dropping Preston a couple of times a game max, and NEVER so you can have Lancaster rushing.  I confess I don't really understand the defense Pettine went with this year.  Hopefully next year he comes to his senses; the comments about Gary being more involved in the run game tells me (I hope) that they plan on running a more athletic nickle front even against the run.

What tracks to me was that they thought BJ Goodson, Oren Burks, and Ty Summers were utterly unplayable. 

I also don't think you can assume that's the plan with Gary. In Pettine's eyes, Gary probably didn't play more than 20 countable run snaps all year. In competitive games he was taking roughly 1 of every 3 series in the pressure package and that was basically it. Fackrell was taking the rest snaps and the lions share of the pressure package reps. With Fackrell gone, there's no avoiding that Gary is going to get more reps, I just don't think it's going to be any significant amount in the nickel. 

[MrBobGray]

53 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What tracks to me was that they thought BJ Goodson, Oren Burks, and Ty Summers were utterly unplayable. 

I also don't think you can assume that's the plan with Gary. In Pettine's eyes, Gary probably didn't play more than 20 countable run snaps all year. In competitive games he was taking roughly 1 of every 3 series in the pressure package and that was basically it. Fackrell was taking the rest snaps and the lions share of the pressure package reps. With Fackrell gone, there's no avoiding that Gary is going to get more reps, I just don't think it's going to be any significant amount in the nickel. 

I mean that does make sense to me too, except I don't see Pettine gets there.  I mean we saw Goodson on the field; certainly not a plus player, but he wasn't any worse than Lancaster on balance.  They both play the run inside the tackles, and not much else.  At least with Goodson on the field, you can rush your best four; I'd rather have Goodson in coverage and Preston on the rush than Lancaster rushing and Preston covering.  And their refusal to play Burks is even more concerning; even if he was an absolute dumpster fire in practice, you really can't just run him out there for a few games to see what happens?  Just so we can get a UDFA run plug on the field?

Honestly, if they don't give Gary reps in the nickle, that's sorta concerning.  There's no space on the field for your 12th overall DE/OLB hybrid who's best attribute in college was wiping out the run game to his side?  

[AlexGreen#20]

7 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I mean that does make sense to me too, except I don't see Pettine gets there.  I mean we saw Goodson on the field; certainly not a plus player, but he wasn't any worse than Lancaster on balance.  They both play the run inside the tackles, and not much else.  At least with Goodson on the field, you can rush your best four; I'd rather have Goodson in coverage and Preston on the rush than Lancaster rushing and Preston covering.  And their refusal to play Burks is even more concerning; even if he was an absolute dumpster fire in practice, you really can't just run him out there for a few games to see what happens?  Just so we can get a UDFA run plug on the field?

Honestly, if they don't give Gary reps in the nickle, that's sorta concerning.  There's no space on the field for your 12th overall DE/OLB hybrid who's best attribute in college was wiping out the run game to his side?  

Hard to tell on the Goodson/Lancaster thing. They protected the hell out of Goodson in coverage this year. Pretty much only let him play in the base defense and even then always left a safety over his head. 

But overall I agree with every word. I hated our nickel package this year. 

[Kepler]

I had always assumed they were dropping Preston a couple times per game just to misdirect. Doesn't seem like that's the plan seeing the evidence.

Man I can't find any justification for how some of these packages are used.

[deathstar]

2 hours ago, Kepler said:

I had always assumed they were dropping Preston a couple times per game just to misdirect. Doesn't seem like that's the plan seeing the evidence.

Man I can't find any justification for how some of these packages are used.

We had one of the best pass rushes in football? I mean.. you guys are making good points, but it’s hard to argue that we failed rushing the passer last season.

[HighCalebR]

5 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

I almost felt bad only leaving a flippant response to such a thorough comment, but what else can you say?  There's simply no reason to play the 3-3, not with any level of consistency.  You should be dropping Preston a couple of times a game max, and NEVER so you can have Lancaster rushing.  I confess I don't really understand the defense Pettine went with this year.  Hopefully next year he comes to his senses; the comments about Gary being more involved in the run game tells me (I hope) that they plan on running a more athletic nickle front even against the run.

Baltimore runs it quite beautifully. If you have the horses at DL I think the 3-3 can be a dominant system, especially if youre not afraid to hang your corners and walk a safety down.

Edited May 29, 2020 by HighCalebR

[Kepler]

2 hours ago, deathstar said:

We had one of the best pass rushes in football? I mean.. you guys are making good points, but it’s hard to argue that we failed rushing the passer last season.

Okay but how do justify the use of talent on those plays?

[deathstar]

7 hours ago, Kepler said:

Okay but how do justify the use of talent on those plays?

Without time stamps I don’t know what the results were, but I imagine that’s where you start.

[MrBobGray]

16 hours ago, HighCalebR said:

Baltimore runs it quite beautifully. If you have the horses at DL I think the 3-3 can be a dominant system, especially if youre not afraid to hang your corners and walk a safety down.

Sorry, I should have been clear; there's no reason to run the 3-3 with this personnel.  I don't have any issue with the formation as a concept, just think it's a terrible fit for the players on this team.  

 

16 hours ago, deathstar said:

We had one of the best pass rushes in football? I mean.. you guys are making good points, but it’s hard to argue that we failed rushing the passer last season.

That's just the talent showing through though.  How many of those successful rushes were just Z or Clark beating two guys, or Preston perfectly timing the snap and just running the corner like there wasn't even a tackle? I mean, if you go back and watch Z eat Minnesota alive week 16, there's nothing special about the formations or calls; hell, he got a sack on a three man pressure lined up over the center.  The lack of production from the rest of the team, when you have three guys just straight up winning like that, is a bit of a red flag; the entire rest of the DL/EDGE group combined for 4.5 sacks; Fackrell got 1 sack a year after having 10.  He played 30 snaps more than Tyler Lancaster.  Gary was 5th on the team in sacks with 2 - somehow he only got 244 snaps.  

The defense they played and the alignments they used just don't really make sense given the talent they had.  Blake has said that basically the Smiths were just allowed to freelance, and he was told to "make them right"; that's a good job of letting your best players play, but it's not a defense.  Like, there's no scheme there; relying on having more talented players than the opposition every game is how you go down 27-0 in the first half of the NFC Championship game.