Mox Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, RandyMossIsBoss said: Hey now I still went with KG, but yes no doubt some bias towards the brow... I do think people are using hindsight for the 1st 8 years comparison though, did KG not have the same "empty stats" rep as AD considering his teams were easy outs in the playoffs every year*? I get it AD only had 2 trips to KG's 7, but AD having the best series among them has to count for something (beating 3 seed Portland where he averaged 33 PPG on 58% shooting)... and as bad as KG's casts were, AD's were even worse. Injuries ravaged them whenever they had any semblance of talent. *Late 90s/early 00s is before my time so I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure I've heard/read that Wolves KG was always dogged for having nothing to show for his accolades, at least up until the WCF run where he showed he could be best player on a contender, and certainly not after the Celtics run. KG's first round losses: Hakeem's 57 win Rockets - 20 year old KG 17.3 ppg 9.3 rpg 3.8 apg 1.3 spg 1.0 bpg Payton's 61 win Sonics - 21 year old KG 15.8 ppg 9.6 rpg 4.0 apg 0.8 spg 2.4 bpg Duncan's league champion Spurs - KG 21.8 ppg 12.0 rpg 3.8 apg 1.8 spg 2.0 bpg Rasheed/Scottie 59 win Blazers - KG 18.8 ppg 10.8 rpg 8.8 apg 1.3 spg 0.8 bpg Duncan's 58 win Spurs - KG 21.0 ppg 12.0 rpg 4.3 apg 1.0 spg 1.5 bpg Dirk's 57 win Mavericks - KG 24.0 ppg 18.7 rpg 5.0 apg 1.7 spg 1.7 bpg Shaq/Kobe league champion Lakers - KG 27.0 ppg 15.7 rpg 5.2 apg 1.7 spg 1.7 bpg In many of those series he was playing elite ball against elite positional competition, including multiple series you could argue are better than any AD has had. Saying AD had the best series between them is highly debatable, at best. I also disagree with the argument that AD had worse casts than Garnett. Go look at their collective On/Offs. The Timberwolves were a dumpster fire every year the second KG came off the court. Check out this 51 win Minnesota team. Anything stick out? AD has never had one season that hits half that level of On/Off and the seasons he came close, he had way better peers than Garnett did. A 26 year old version of him is top 3 in the NBA today at worst. Play-by-Play Position Estimate +/- Per 100 Poss. Turnovers Fouls Committed Fouls Drawn Misc. Rk Age G MP PG% SG% SF% PF% C% OnCourt On-Off BadPass LostBall Shoot Off. Shoot Off. PGA And1 Blkd 1 Kevin Garnett 26 82 3321 6% 82% 13% +6.1 +23.6 82 66 86 30 214 1065 58 60 2 Troy Hudson 26 79 2600 100% +1.9 -1.3 104 52 41 12 53 949 5 39 3 Rasho Nesterović 26 77 2337 8% 93% +2.3 -0.1 31 19 141 23 44 244 10 58 4 Anthony Peeler 33 82 2245 98% 2% +1.0 -3.0 49 26 62 4 17 512 4 32 5 Kendall Gill 34 82 2068 66% 34% -0.1 -5.0 50 32 75 18 59 322 11 47 6 Wally Szczerbiak 25 52 1836 13% 86% 1% +3.9 +2.9 33 26 49 22 56 291 16 34 7 Gary Trent 28 80 1222 65% 35% -3.2 -7.9 18 20 67 12 48 167 13 32 8 Joe Smith 27 54 1117 56% 43% 2% +3.8 +2.1 17 17 95 7 51 84 8 37 9 Marc Jackson 28 77 1041 5% 95% +1.1 -1.7 17 15 58 8 67 78 8 28 10 Rod Strickland 36 47 956 90% 10% +2.6 +0.4 42 16 20 7 41 455 5 11 11 Loren Woods 24 38 353 100% -0.2 -2.8 9 10 21 0 12 39 2 8 12 Mike Wilks 23 31 324 100% -2.1 -4.8 6 2 18 1 5 109 0 5 13 Igor Rakočević 24 42 244 74% 26% +10.1 +8.2 14 5 6 0 13 69 2 5 14 Reggie Slater 32 26 141 31% 61% 8% +1.4 -1.0 2 1 10 3 17 8 1 Edited May 28, 2020 by Bullet Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 47 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said: Say 26 year old KG is in the league today, is he in that top 6, or would you say the same thing that you're saying about AD, that he's "a really good player. Dude can..." etc. ? KG in today's league would REALLY be valuable on both ends. He was a much better play maker than AD and would be an insane stretch 5. Also was someone the T-Wolves went to down the stretch. I actually feel like KG not wanting to hit the post as much kind of hurt him at times. But hard to say which I guy I take off to insert KG. Not to say KG isn't better than most of them all time, but man perimeter superstars impact>>>>. I'll have to think about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 5 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: KG in today's league would REALLY be valuable on both ends. He was a much better play maker than AD and would be an insane stretch 5. Also was someone the T-Wolves went to down the stretch. I actually feel like KG not wanting to hit the post as much kind of hurt him at times. But hard to say which I guy I take off to insert KG. Not to say KG isn't better than most of them all time, but man perimeter superstars impact>>>>. I'll have to think about that one. KG would be the perfect modern 5. I'd only consider Giannis and LeBron over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Prime KG would be a combo of Anthony Davis and Draymond Green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 On 5/27/2020 at 11:51 AM, seminoles1 said: Clearly more talented? I'd ague that Anthony Davis is more naturally gifted. That's not saying that Garnett was a slouch, but Anthony Davis' offensive game is ahead of Garnett's at the same point in their career. The question is can Anthony Davis turn into the defensive player that Garnett was? He's got the tools, but this is really the first year we've really seen him display it consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 15 hours ago, CWood21 said: I'd ague that Anthony Davis is more naturally gifted. That's not saying that Garnett was a slouch, but Anthony Davis' offensive game is ahead of Garnett's at the same point in their career. The question is can Anthony Davis turn into the defensive player that Garnett was? He's got the tools, but this is really the first year we've really seen him display it consistently. It's not much of a question. The answer is almost certainly hell no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amac Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) ADs teams in New Orleans were largely atrocious. KG did a better job leading, albeit in a totally different era. If AD is an integral part of a title winning team I think a lot of people will end up ranking him above KG, assuming he doesn’t fall off a cliff Edited May 31, 2020 by amac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 KG's teams in Minnesota were largely worse with an exception or two. I still don't really see any argument for AD ever being a top 20 guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm6492 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 KG being used correctly as a 5 and not playing with a 5 who can't move outta the paint >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 20 hours ago, amac said: ADs teams in New Orleans were largely atrocious. KG did a better job leading, albeit in a totally different era. If AD is an integral part of a title winning team I think a lot of people will end up ranking him above KG, assuming he doesn’t fall off a cliff AD gets the "teams were atrocious" thing while still getting ranked up there with the actual superstars and guys that lead teams regardless of who is around them. He simply isn't that dude. He's finally in the spot that is right for him - as a second guy. Can he be...like...one of the all time great "robins" ... no doubt. Could be the best. His skillset just isn't built to be the top guy as of now. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/28/2020 at 2:49 PM, Bullet Club said: KG would be the perfect modern 5. I'd only consider Giannis and LeBron over him. Yeah, definitely taking KD over him. But guys like Steph have shown the ability to take over games and win series in a way KG hardly ever did. And again, that comes down to just the impact a perimeter player has, especially in today's game. KG vs Giannis would actually be interesting, considering Giannis has yet to show you can give him the rock and let him take over playoff games down the stretch. The others on my list have shown it...Minus maybe Harden who has his fair share of suspect postseason moments...Though played mainly fine last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 6 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Yeah, definitely taking KD over him. But guys like Steph have shown the ability to take over games and win series in a way KG hardly ever did. And again, that comes down to just the impact a perimeter player has, especially in today's game. KG vs Giannis would actually be interesting, considering Giannis has yet to show you can give him the rock and let him take over playoff games down the stretch. The others on my list have shown it...Minus maybe Harden who has his fair share of suspect postseason moments...Though played mainly fine last season. Post achilles KD? Naw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 KG is a better passer, rebouder, and defender. AD is a better scorer. Both are good at everything. But KG was a top 3 rebounder and top passing big man in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Brown Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 I haven't read any other post in this thread and I have no clue what the numbers are. While Anthony Davis is a great player and sure fire first ballot HoF'er, Kevin Garnett is the better player for sure. In my opinion, Garnett is the second best PF to ever play the game. Probably not a popular opinion, but that's how highly I regard Garnett as a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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