Who is on the "hottest" of seats going into 2020?

[Tetsujin]

19 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

Apparently you missed everything that happened here. Publicly gushing his love for a “news” network that called Black Lives Matter a “criminal organization” while being the leader of a team of mostly black players is being completely tone deaf to put it mildly. The t-shirt was just the latest co-sign that set this all off. 

I know what happened.

I’d be willing to bet very few players on that team knew what OAN was before Gundy mentioned it. I bet none of them have even watched it. Coach wore some shirt to get dirty (he probably got for free) for a fishing trip. This guy has a rich history of supporting his players,  and he spoke out for George Floyd. So to go all Twitter assault on the man before/instead of talking it out was a bad move, IMO. As for Gundy’s non apology, he probably isn’t sorry for wearing the shirt, and doesn’t seem like a guy who issues empty apologies. I’m pretty sure we won’t see him wearing that shirt again, though.

There’s a bunch of people getting rightfully caught up in the zeitgeist and wrongly losing some civility because of it. 

[catcheryea]

8 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I, for one, am glad you'll never catch my coach in anything outside of the WalMart clearance section.

there is definitely a non zero chance wal mart sells oan merch

[Oregon Ducks]

12 hours ago, Tetsujin said:

I know what happened.

I’d be willing to bet very few players on that team knew what OAN was before Gundy mentioned it. I bet none of them have even watched it. Coach wore some shirt to get dirty (he probably got for free) for a fishing trip. This guy has a rich history of supporting his players,  and he spoke out for George Floyd. So to go all Twitter assault on the man before/instead of talking it out was a bad move, IMO. As for Gundy’s non apology, he probably isn’t sorry for wearing the shirt, and doesn’t seem like a guy who issues empty apologies. I’m pretty sure we won’t see him wearing that shirt again, though.

There’s a bunch of people getting rightfully caught up in the zeitgeist and wrongly losing some civility because of it. 

What? Dude has a history of putting his foot in his mouth.

[Tetsujin]

29 minutes ago, Oregon Ducks said:

What? Dude has a history of putting his foot in his mouth.

That doesn't mean he doesn't support his players.

[MWil23]

22 hours ago, Tetsujin said:

That doesn't mean he doesn't support his players.

I think that's lost on a lot of people unfortunately. Everyone knows the "I'm a man, I'm 40!" part of that monologue, but often they forget the context was that he read the excerpt from the paper and backed HIS GUY, who was a "great kid" that worked hard, was a great teammate, and gave back to the community. The context of everything leading up to that was fantastic, and it's unfortunate that people forget the first bit of that.

Some may call him a hypocrite because of his stances on things like paying players, putting his foot in his mouth at times, or political stances, but in my opinion, he truly cares about his players, will defend them publicly, will do his best to teach them how to be men during their time there, and holds them to a standard of accountability/does his best to do so.

He's not perfect, nor does he claim to be. At least he's man enough to publicly admit his faults, own them, and move on.

This narrative that people can't change their minds or evolve after making mistakes is closed minded/weighing these motives are dangerous. Sometimes, people are giant hypocrites, but sometimes, people are human and make mistakes, own them, and move on.

[winitall]

18 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I think that's lost on a lot of people unfortunately. Everyone knows the "I'm a man, I'm 40!" part of that monologue, but often they forget the context was that he read the excerpt from the paper and backed HIS GUY, who was a "great kid" that worked hard, was a great teammate, and gave back to the community. The context of everything leading up to that was fantastic, and it's unfortunate that people forget the first bit of that.

Some may call him a hypocrite because of his stances on things like paying players, putting his foot in his mouth at times, or political stances, but in my opinion, he truly cares about his players, will defend them publicly, will do his best to teach them how to be men during their time there, and holds them to a standard of accountability/does his best to do so.

He's not perfect, nor does he claim to be. At least he's man enough to publicly admit his faults, own them, and move on.

This narrative that people can't change their minds or evolve after making mistakes is closed minded/weighing these motives are dangerous. Sometimes, people are giant hypocrites, but sometimes, people are human and make mistakes, own them, and move on.

If you threaten to “send players back to the hood”, you don’t really care about them. There’s a reason so many current and former players said something needs to change. 

[mse326]

1 minute ago, winitall said:

If you threaten to “send players back to the hood”, you don’t really care about them. There’s a reason so many current and former players said something needs to change. 

Did Gundy do that or are you confusing him with the Iowa S&T coach who reportedly did this?

[winitall]

5 minutes ago, mse326 said:

Did Gundy do that or are you confusing him with the Iowa S&T coach who reportedly did this?

According to a former player, Gundy did that:

 

 

 

[MWil23]

7 minutes ago, winitall said:

If you threaten to “send players back to the hood”, you don’t really care about them. There’s a reason so many current and former players said something needs to change. 

Terrible word choice. That said, he's far from the only coach in America with a dress code. Our D-II coach and squad had one.

Banner above our facility read:

"Shoes tied, shirt tucked, mind right".

Doing anything whatsoever, even lifting weights, we had to have our shirts tucked and shoes tied at all times. We were not allowed to have any piercings and always had to wear shirts with sleeves, hair couldn't be covering your ears or past the base of your neck, and we weren't allowed to have any facial hair (exception: mustaches, which led to hilarious side effects with my teammates).

We weren't Notre Dame making players wear jackets and ties on the bus on road games either.

[mse326]

Just now, winitall said:

According to a former player, Gundy did that:

 

 

 

Hadn't heard that.

I wonder if these coaches are doing it as part of a general I'll send you back to where you came from that they apply to all players regardless of race or they do do it disproportionately towards black players (to be clear, I don't deny that racism in football programs exists, only that I'd like more information regarding these instances before I can definitely say there is a racial component)

[winitall]

8 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Terrible word choice. That said, he's far from the only coach in America with a dress code. Our D-II coach and squad had one.

Banner above our facility read:

"Shoes tied, shirt tucked, mind right".

Doing anything whatsoever, even lifting weights, we had to have our shirts tucked and shoes tied at all times. We were not allowed to have any piercings and always had to wear shirts with sleeves, hair couldn't be covering your ears or past the base of your neck, and we weren't allowed to have any facial hair (exception: mustaches, which led to hilarious side effects with my teammates).

We weren't Notre Dame making players wear jackets and ties on the bus on road games either.

At what point is a terrible word choice indicative of something bigger though? How many former players have to speak out before it becomes clear that there is an issue? When the two best players on your team currently, as well as a recent NFL draft pick, all say that things in the culture need to change, shouldn’t we believe them? Gundy might come off as a guy that wants the best for his players to outsiders, but it’s clear that sentiment isn’t shared by the players. 

[MWil23]

5 minutes ago, winitall said:

At what point is a terrible word choice indicative of something bigger though?

When you have clear/concrete evidence that it's only a one way street and he holds some players to a different standard than others. I would wager that a lot of people my age used a lot of poor word choices and substitutes (words substituted for stupid, calling my buddies demeaning names, etc.) when we were younger, and now that we're older, are able to take a step back and say "Yeah, that was ignorant". It's hard to weigh motives on those word choices. There are clear and obvious exceptions to what I'm saying here.

5 minutes ago, winitall said:

How many former players have to speak out before it becomes clear that there is an issue? When the two best players on your team currently, as well as a recent NFL draft pick, all say that things in the culture need to change, shouldn’t we believe them?

When a bunch of former players and current/former NFL players rush to back him and speak to how much he cares about them, shouldn't we believe them? That rationale/logic goes both ways. Besides, what if a lot of those players had negative experiences simply because he held them accountable, and now they have a public ax to grind? Oh, and maybe they are 100% telling the truth too...but only they and Gundy/those inside OK State know that.

5 minutes ago, winitall said:

Gundy might come off as a guy that wants the best for his players to outsiders, but it’s clear that sentiment isn’t shared by the players. 

It's clear that sentiment isn't shared by ALL of the players, maybe even SOME of the players. Those few may or may not be an indicator of a bigger problem. They could also be outliers for all we know. 

What we do know is that he issued a public statement, apology, acknowledged where he was wrong/why he was wrong, and that he needs to "do better". Things like this, coupled with the fact that he is/has always been willing to meet with his players and get things right face to face speaks volumes.

I know that in today's climate, it's easy to label people and spin it as though it's absolute proof, but blanket labels of people can be extremely dangerous.

JMHO

[MWil23]

To be honest, if we are talking about head coaches in College FB who are "great men" and "great coaches", then the list starts and ends with Tom Osbourne. Today, Harbaugh and Pat Fitzgerald are the two coaches I'd absolutely "let my son play for" as men. I'm in the minority here, but I love Dabo and Gundy as well, barring something that comes about that is blatantly to the contrary of everything I know/have been informed of speaking to what few contacts in the College FB/the coaching circuit who I personally know.

[ramssuperbowl99]

I don't even understand what you are arguing. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Gundy was actively trying to antagonize his players like he did, but it's clear that his conduct was totally unacceptable. And it's perfectly reasonable for other people who are just now finding out about everything that has gone on at OSU to be critical of that conduct, regardless of what Gundy has done since this story exploded.

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I don't even understand what you are arguing. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Gundy was actively trying to antagonize his players like he did, but it's clear that his conduct was totally unacceptable.

I personally read that as "actively antagonizing", so that's what I was stating. I think that there's a major difference between "ignorance" and "racism". Unfortunately, the climate/era that we live in lends itself to skepticism of people evolving. For example, did a politician "evolve" on LGBT issues, or did they decide 4 months before reelection that it was a great way to pander for votes? Applying this to the Gundy situation, same question. Do you believe that he is apologetic/a hypocrite because he's "in trouble" or because of public perception, or because he's evolving and starting to understand some of these ignorant things that have been unintentional?

To be honest, I think people would be shocked at how almost every college coach in the nation, D1-D3, treats their "student athletes". My coach treated me like a piece of meat, used me up, then discarded me. We broke the "20 hour rule" every week for my 4 years there, he tried to pull my scholarship as a senior when I elected to get rotator cuff surgery/missed 90% of my senior season, cut 1/2 of the kids he offered scholarships to, voiding their scholarship (contingent upon making the squad in fine print) and forcing them to pay out of state tuition for an entire semester at a private university, called a professor to get a grade changed for our All American DH, which then happened 45 minutes later so as he wouldn't be ineligible...the list goes on.

TBH, most of us will never know what goes on/what these coaches' motivations/character actually is.