TAPT Version 70.0 Steve Dowden follows the rules

[ThatJerkDave]

17 hours ago, HighCalebR said:

Youve just locked into a mortal enemy situation Dave. 

Yeah, at least out here on the prairie it's been close to unaffected work wise. So i dunno why they wouldnt have rushed more work done other than theyre on a repair schedule. I dont get paid that much

I go back and forth to whether concrete or asphalt is the way to go.  I think we do a pretty good job of it right now, tbh, we just don't maintain what we have properly, which leads to huge projects that probably don't have to be that bad.

I would absolutely go concrete on any personal property, unless I had something really heavy on it.  It reflects less sun and is not as hot.  But I have to lean asphalt on any high throughput or even roads that don't get the maintenance attention very often.  Once that concrete breaks, you are boned.  

[Joe]

@Normthere is a boxed action figure of you hanging on the ceiling at a bar here in NJ lol.

[Norm]

23 minutes ago, Joe said:

@Normthere is a boxed action figure of you hanging on the ceiling at a bar here in NJ lol.

Nice

[Mr Bad Example]

If we're talking Norm from Cheers it would probably be more accurately an "inaction figure" 

[Sasquatch]

10 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I go back and forth to whether concrete or asphalt is the way to go.  I think we do a pretty good job of it right now, tbh, we just don't maintain what we have properly, which leads to huge projects that probably don't have to be that bad.

I would absolutely go concrete on any personal property, unless I had something really heavy on it.  It reflects less sun and is not as hot.  But I have to lean asphalt on any high throughput or even roads that don't get the maintenance attention very often.  Once that concrete breaks, you are boned.  

Asphalt is cheaper.  Not better, just cheaper.  Maybe concrete lasts longer so it evens out the cost long term, but our road crews refuse to pour concrete because of the cost.

[ThatJerkDave]

10 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Asphalt is cheaper.  Not better, just cheaper.  Maybe concrete lasts longer so it evens out the cost long term, but our road crews refuse to pour concrete because of the cost.

I really think the difference is the maintenance cost.  It is a quick and easy fix for a pothole in asphalt.  When the concrete cracks or breaks it is a bigger project.  I am surprised that lower trafficked areas don't have more concrete roads.

 

But we can (and should) all agree that the worst roads are the ones with bricks.  They fall apart, settle, bow, and even when new you have to drive as if you were in a parking lot or driveway.  They sure do look good when they are newly installed and flat though.  

 

[Sasquatch]

27 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I really think the difference is the maintenance cost.  It is a quick and easy fix for a pothole in asphalt.  When the concrete cracks or breaks it is a bigger project.  I am surprised that lower trafficked areas don't have more concrete roads.

 

But we can (and should) all agree that the worst roads are the ones with bricks.  They fall apart, settle, bow, and even when new you have to drive as if you were in a parking lot or driveway.  They sure do look good when they are newly installed and flat though.  

 

I love driving on concrete and wish we had more of it out west where I live.  Asphalt is hot, degrades quickly, and warps and ruts in really hot climates.  Oh, and the freakin potholes are the worst!

We don’t have any brick roads out here, so I wouldn’t know, but I can imagine they’d be a pain in the arse.

[R T]

In Kentucky the roads are just layered with road kill, mostly opossum.

[HighCalebR]

21 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I go back and forth to whether concrete or asphalt is the way to go.  I think we do a pretty good job of it right now, tbh, we just don't maintain what we have properly, which leads to huge projects that probably don't have to be that bad.

I would absolutely go concrete on any personal property, unless I had something really heavy on it.  It reflects less sun and is not as hot.  But I have to lean asphalt on any high throughput or even roads that don't get the maintenance attention very often.  Once that concrete breaks, you are boned.  

Haha they both have their place for sure. I just think its fun to feud with other mediums.

Weve concreted everything on my dads farm. Smoker, pumphouse, garden shed, butcher shop, stable, fence posts, fence- all concrete. Try doing that with asphalt! 

Brick is *** for sure. Minneapolis has a couple little roads that are brick and they have to plow those and thats hilarious.

[ThatJerkDave]

2 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

I love driving on concrete and wish we had more of it out west where I live.  Asphalt is hot, degrades quickly, and warps and ruts in really hot climates.  Oh, and the freakin potholes are the worst!

We don’t have any brick roads out here, so I wouldn’t know, but I can imagine they’d be a pain in the arse.

Quick asphalt lesson:  Asphalt is not asphalt.  Stuff you put down in Atlanta will be wildly different than stuff you put down in Vermont.  The current grading system has 2 numbers.  The first number is the temperature at which the asphalt will start to melt (in Celsius), the second temperature is the temperature at which the asphalt will start to crack due to cold.  In the midwest, we typically use 64-22.  So the material is rated for 64 °C to -22°C.  There are many modifications that are used to raise and lower both of those temperatures, and there are parameters along the way that they must meet to pass as a proper material, so, unfortunately, you can't just decide to make a 100-100 and pave everything with it.  Also, asphalt is actually just the oil, so the street in front of your house isn't asphalt.  It is asphalt mixed with an aggregate.  

Brick will sink where weight sits, and comes apart.  There are some brick streets down on the landing here in St Louis.  It looks like an arc.  Standing on the curb, you are probably 3 feet lower than someone standing in the center of the road.  Rain erodes it.  Snow and ice kill it.  Anything of significant weight pushes it down into the soil below it.  I have even seen some brick driveways in some of the old houses in Columbia.  Cars put too much weight on them and the bricks sink.  

1 hour ago, HighCalebR said:

Haha they both have their place for sure. I just think its fun to feud with other mediums.

Weve concreted everything on my dads farm. Smoker, pumphouse, garden shed, butcher shop, stable, fence posts, fence- all concrete. Try doing that with asphalt! 

Brick is *** for sure. Minneapolis has a couple little roads that are brick and they have to plow those and thats hilarious.

Like I said, I would do anything that doesn't see constant heavy traffic out of concrete.  I just know that it is a huge PITA when it needs repair of any kind.  In the past, I have done a lot of concrete work at my dad's house, driveways, pool deck, stone paths, waterfall.  He has his own small batch mixer.  I'm not a complete noob, though certainly not an expert.  

I am even very impressed with some concrete culverts that I have seen.  If I had a drainage ditch that saw a lot of water, I would think hard about making those from concrete.  Probably better than a corrugated pipe, and cheaper than a full cast iron one.

 

At my plant, where we fill the trucks holding the asphalt, it is paved with...  gravel.  Some of those trucks are really heavy.  Plus it is a whole lot easier to clean up potential spills if you can scoop the gravel up instead of scraping against a road.

 

2 hours ago, R T said:

In Kentucky the roads are just layered with road kill, mostly opossum.

A Kentucky project was a thorn in my side just last week.  They have a threshold that other states don't have on a particular test (that is common, they are all different because... do more work, Dave) that we didn't meet.  Then since the project was for a runway, they also needed a test that we hadn't run since 2015, because do more work, Dave.  The stuff the plant had, was just sitting there waiting for a month, so of course it goes off spec in that time, so I had to scramble with some of the stuff we have in Illinois, to ship it to the place in Indiana, that is contracting the job in Kentucky.  LOL.

[Joe]

Let's not forget that there's a certain...enterprise shall we say that's thoroughly rooted in construction. A lot of the time they tend to meddle a little too much in roadwork projects *gabagoos internally*

[HighCalebR]

Lol finding an actual tar boy. Whodve known!

@ThatJerkDave We do quite a bit of work with silage pads. Both asphalt and concrete. Asphalt falls apart and ruts up, concrete will get worn down from the scraping of the loaders.  Whats the expert opinion of stacking asphalt on top of the concrete? Youd give it the stable base of concrete and the easy repair of asphalt. Even if a spot of concrete broke down itd still be a solid base  High front end cost but should save $ over time.. Its been something we've been thinking about for a few years as a side query.. Doubt you could talk cattlemen into the egregious front end though.

I realize the easy answer would be to create a stable base from gravel and rock to lay the asphalt on, but the majority of these farms arent built on solid soil, generally swamps and other useless such lands.

Plus if it worked I'd be ******* my own self. I dont hate having job security lolol

Edited September 18, 2021 by HighCalebR

[ThatJerkDave]

5 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

Lol finding an actual tar boy. Whodve known!

@ThatJerkDave We do quite a bit of work with silage pads. Both asphalt and concrete. Asphalt falls apart and ruts up, concrete will get worn down from the scraping of the loaders.  Whats the expert opinion of stacking asphalt on top of the concrete? Youd give it the stable base of concrete and the easy repair of asphalt. Even if a spot of concrete broke down itd still be a solid base  High front end cost but should save $ over time.. Its been something we've been thinking about for a few years as a side query.. Doubt you could talk cattlemen into the egregious front end though.

I would only use asphalt on roads, maybe driveways or like playgrounds.  Though I think the best for playgrounds is actually that rubber stuff that they use for running tracks.  

 

Our asphalt tanks have a concrete base that they sit on.  My guess is that they are much, much heavier than a typical grain silo.  If they are having issues with cracking concrete, I would think the real answer is thicker concrete.  Or perhaps not using the full capacity of the silo. 

I don't think I would use asphalt on anything that is bearing any weight.  Maybe an outbuilding for a shed or garage, or the parking surface of a parking garage.  I would think the weight of a silo would push into the asphalt, no?  

I just work in the lab, I don't put anything on the ground though.  

[HighCalebR]

24 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

 

Our asphalt tanks have a concrete base that they sit on.  My guess is that they are much, much heavier than a typical grain silo.  If they are having issues with cracking concrete, I would think the real answer is thicker concrete.  Or perhaps not using the full capacity of the silo. 

I don't think I would use asphalt on anything that is bearing any weight.  Maybe an outbuilding for a shed or garage, or the parking surface of a parking garage.  I would think the weight of a silo would push into the asphalt, no?  

I just work in the lab, I don't put anything on the ground though.  

No, silage is like ground up corn stalks and **** they feed to cattle. They just pile it and cover with tarps. It produces acid which will rot rebar, so we were one of the first to switch over to fiber bar. The problem we have left is the loader will scrape the surface of the concrete off over time, so after 5 years or so you lose maybe 1/2" of concrete, which induces cracking and things that wears out the bar. Havent had to fix any of the fiber bar areas yet, hopefully that's helped elongate the life of the pads. 

It's a situation where the product is going to wear out, we just have to find the best way to make it last while being a quick and painless repair.

Probably enough pavement talk though hahahha

[incognito_man]

40 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

No, silage is like ground up corn stalks and **** they feed to cattle. They just pile it and cover with tarps. It produces acid which will rot rebar, so we were one of the first to switch over to fiber bar. The problem we have left is the loader will scrape the surface of the concrete off over time, so after 5 years or so you lose maybe 1/2" of concrete, which induces cracking and things that wears out the bar. Havent had to fix any of the fiber bar areas yet, hopefully that's helped elongate the life of the pads. 

It's a situation where the product is going to wear out, we just have to find the best way to make it last while being a quick and painless repair.

Probably enough pavement talk though hahahha

3ft thick 440C CRES pad should do the trick