TAPT Version 70.0 Steve Dowden follows the rules

[Leader]

8 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

They cannot, unless you want to cut your other sports programs, which you can't because of Title IX. The cost to operate a D1 football team is massive, there isn't a ton of profit left over and what is leftover subsidizes the rest of the athletic department.  I worked in one as a college internship for 4 years. In principle, I would 100% support what you're saying in cutting the burden on the common citizen, I'm just telling you that's not a feasible option.

Well there's the key component I wasnt aware of: there isn't a ton of profit left over.
It was my impression that there was - that could be spread across a broader spectrum of the admin/educational range.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Leader

[Packerraymond]

4 minutes ago, Leader said:

Well there's the key component I wasnt aware of: there isn't a ton of profit left over.
My impression was there was - that could be spread across a broader spectrum of the admin/educational range.

Football teams spend massive amounts on their recruiting efforts and assistant coaches compared to the other sports. Some teams are in charge of the operating costs of their stadium, some are covered by the university. Then consider the cost to fly a couple planes on every road trip and lodging a couple hundred bodies too. It's a lot.

[ThatJerkDave]

37 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

It absolutely should be data-driven. And projected societal needs should be funded. i.e. if we think we need 10,000 chemical engineers in 4 years there should be 10,000 free chemical engineer education scholarships provided.

I would also like for a change in how high school level is teaching kids that they need to go to college.  There are some things that don't require it, and these are needed jobs, and in some cases very high paying jobs.  I promise that I have more education than either my plumber or electrician.  But they probably make more money than I do.  

[incognito_man]

7 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I would also like for a change in how high school level is teaching kids that they need to go to college.  There are some things that don't require it, and these are needed jobs, and in some cases very high paying jobs.  I promise that I have more education than either my plumber or electrician.  But they probably make more money than I do.  

The left has squandered an enormous opportunity by (appearing) focused on 4-year colleges at the expense of other post-secondary options. 

I don't understand why there hasn't been a more targeted agenda on that. To win those voters if nothing else. I mean, it also happens to be great for society.

The "pragmatic progressive" was the obvious answer to "compassionate conservative". There are hints of that building behind top leadership that has me somewhat hopeful.

Here's to hoping our transportation secretary continues to move up

Edited November 30, 2021 by incognito_man

[ThatJerkDave]

16 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

The left has squandered an enormous opportunity by (appearing) focused on 4-year colleges at the expense of other post-secondary options. 

I don't understand why there hasn't been a more targeted agenda on that. To win those voters if nothing else. I mean, it also happens to be great for society.

The "pragmatic progressive" was the obvious answer to "compassionate conservative". There are hints of that building behind top leadership that has me somewhat hopeful.

Here's to hoping our transportation secretary continues to move up

I am probably center-right leaning, and I don't totally disagree.  My biggest want politically is to remove anyone that has been a career politician, left, right, center, or whatever they want to identify themselves as.  Knowing that I am treading on a thin line here, I just don't think that anyone should become wealthy off of tax money.  But that does not account for companies, because someone has to build the planes, and guns, and roads, and schools.

 

 

(LOL, at first I typed "scools" instead of "schools"  hahaha!) 

[incognito_man]

36 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I am probably center-right leaning, and I don't totally disagree.  My biggest want politically is to remove anyone that has been a career politician, left, right, center, or whatever they want to identify themselves as.  Knowing that I am treading on a thin line here, I just don't think that anyone should become wealthy off of tax money.  But that does not account for companies, because someone has to build the planes, and guns, and roads, and schools.

 

 

(LOL, at first I typed "scools" instead of "schools"  hahaha!) 

how about we have elected officials that can "guide and educated" a bi-annually randomly selected group of citizens.

i.e. every two years 1,000 (or whatever) random citizens are selected as the legislators (think jury selection). We still have elected senators or whatever - but THEIR role is to lobby the random 1,000 citizens (whose votes are the ones that actually count). So the laws are still written/drafted by professionals who understand the language - but then voted on by unelected, moderately paid, citizens who have no motive for re-election. Implement obvious safe-guards to dissuade bad actors trying to influence votes. Make it a sufficiently large number of people such that neither extreme has much chance for any measurable influence. Could make it anonymous. Could have a group 3x as large and then randomly select which votes actually get counted on any given piece of legislation, etc.

[Joe]

I think in order to right those wrongs you have to blow up the education system and start over. If we are a country of choice, then we need to invest in a two-school system beginning in the 6th grade meaning students who come from a blue collar background who wish to follow in their parents' footsteps into the workforce straight out of what is now HS should be in one school and students who wish to pursue higher education need to be put into another school altogether. What about sports you may ask? Simple, most successful athletes are coming from private academies and places like IMG; any other casual athlete or someone who just wants to play the game should be able to have the opportunity to play for a team funded by their local municipality which would field players from both the local college prep school and the local vocational school.

That said, we're in this predicament in the trades because of the perception of those who have traditionally gone into the trades in the past. This has created a yawning generational gap in the trades between a lot of older Gen Xers/Boomers and the younger millennials. There is about to be a HUGE demand in the trades(mainly plumbing) once those older skilled workers begin to retire. I was in RI last week visiting friends and one of their neighbors is a plumber who is booked solid for the next year. His fee is $350 a call...

That said, I hate to mention politics but we cannot trust our politicians as we have an openly fascist party that has a ton of infighting and another more aloof party that is silently complicit lulling the majority of the country into financial slavery through meager wages across the board. Two weeks ago, my immediate boss announced that he was freezing annual wage raises because he was asked to start cutting salaries or to create a skeletal crew through questionable means. He refused and told us that all of our jobs were essentially saved by this move as he was allowed to do that instead of firing people for literally no reason. We're all starting to consider other options and I know this is happening everywhere...this country is so screwed IMHO.

[incognito_man]

I'm marinading venison heart for dinner. 

[Sasquatch]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

I think in order to right those wrongs you have to blow up the education system and start over. If we are a country of choice, then we need to invest in a two-school system beginning in the 6th grade meaning students who come from a blue collar background who wish to follow in their parents' footsteps into the workforce straight out of what is now HS should be in one school and students who wish to pursue higher education need to be put into another school altogether. What about sports you may ask? Simple, most successful athletes are coming from private academies and places like IMG; any other casual athlete or someone who just wants to play the game should be able to have the opportunity to play for a team funded by their local municipality which would field players from both the local college prep school and the local vocational school.

That said, we're in this predicament in the trades because of the perception of those who have traditionally gone into the trades in the past. This has created a yawning generational gap in the trades between a lot of older Gen Xers/Boomers and the younger millennials. There is about to be a HUGE demand in the trades(mainly plumbing) once those older skilled workers begin to retire. I was in RI last week visiting friends and one of their neighbors is a plumber who is booked solid for the next year. His fee is $350 a call...

That said, I hate to mention politics but we cannot trust our politicians as we have an openly fascist party that has a ton of infighting and another more aloof party that is silently complicit lulling the majority of the country into financial slavery through meager wages across the board. Two weeks ago, my immediate boss announced that he was freezing annual wage raises because he was asked to start cutting salaries or to create a skeletal crew through questionable means. He refused and told us that all of our jobs were essentially saved by this move as he was allowed to do that instead of firing people for literally no reason. We're all starting to consider other options and I know this is happening everywhere...this country is so screwed IMHO.

We’re all screwed if we don’t wake up.  Everyone is so distracted by the disfunction of our government leaders (on all sides, state and nationally), that it’s tantamount to watching your house burn while you’re still inside.  Meanwhile, nefarious foreign actors are salivating as they watch us implode and are most likely facilitating some or much of our demise.  If we don’t come together - and soon - the American experiment will indeed fall on it’s face.

Back to education - indeed, there needs to be a focus on both college AND career pathways for all learners.  The trades and mentorship opportunities must be built into to the system, and frankly, the system definitely needs some restructuring.  The goal should be to help as many students as possible reach their full potential.  By doing so, it helps them, our economy, and our nation.  There are a multitude of pathways by which students of all backgrounds, talents, and interests can take to get there, but not altogether coordinated and built into the system.

Very little can be done until we turn our focus away from conspiracies and incessant infighting, and stop giving oxygen and life to bad political actors that keep the focus on these aforementioned distractions.  We’re quickly reaching a critical tipping point, where it will no longer matter if you’re a brainwashed patriot or a passive lefty.  There will only be ashes and bloodshed.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Sasquatch

[Joe]

2 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

We’re all screwed if we don’t wake up.  Everyone is so distracted by the disfunction of our government leaders (on all sides, state and nationally), that it’s tantamount to watching your house burn while you’re still inside.  Meanwhile, nefarious foreign actors are salivating as they watch us implode and are most likely facilitating some or much of our demise.  If we don’t come together - and soon - the American experiment will indeed fall on it’s face.

Back to education - indeed, there needs to be a focus on both college AND career pathways for all learners.  The trades and mentorship opportunities must be built into to the system, and frankly, the system definitely needs some restructuring.  The goal should be to help as many students as possible reach their full potential.  By doing so, it helps them, our economy, and our nation.  There are a multitude of pathways by which students of all backgrounds, talents, and interests can take to get there, but not altogether coordinated and built into the system.

Very little can be done until we turn our focus away from conspiracies and incessant infighting, and stop giving oxygen and life to bad political actors that keep the focus on these aforementioned distractions.  We’re quickly reaching a critical tipping point, where it will no longer matter if you’re a brainwashed patriot or a passive lefty.  There will be only be ashes and bloodshed.

Totally agreed and as to your second paragraph, this is why I proposed the education reformation idea. Everyone graduates with the same diploma so if you take the vocational route but want to attend a traditional 4 year school, you have the qualifications in which to be viable. 

I'm going to stop there though because I could write a book about how I could respond to your post, which was well-worded by the way - seriously, platinum star for you.

[Dubz41]

If you two are done stroking each other......

If I understand your education reform idea...you want 14 year olds to decide what kind of school they want to attend?  14?  Most 18 year olds don't know what they want to do.

The American way is not on life support yet.  I have two small but crucial steps to sending things back to normalcy,  (if there is such a thing anymore).

1- Term limits.  It can be done.

2- Terminate anyone with 'emeritus' standing in the education system.  They are overpaid pork that only aids in the burgeoning debt college students suffer from now.

Start with these two steps and see how it works.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Dubz41

[Mendeleev]

nvm

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mendeleev
Dont have a source

[AlexGreen#20]

17 hours ago, Joe said:

I think in order to right those wrongs you have to blow up the education system and start over. If we are a country of choice, then we need to invest in a two-school system beginning in the 6th grade meaning students who come from a blue collar background who wish to follow in their parents' footsteps into the workforce straight out of what is now HS should be in one school and students who wish to pursue higher education need to be put into another school altogether. What about sports you may ask? Simple, most successful athletes are coming from private academies and places like IMG; any other casual athlete or someone who just wants to play the game should be able to have the opportunity to play for a team funded by their local municipality which would field players from both the local college prep school and the local vocational school.

That said, we're in this predicament in the trades because of the perception of those who have traditionally gone into the trades in the past. This has created a yawning generational gap in the trades between a lot of older Gen Xers/Boomers and the younger millennials. There is about to be a HUGE demand in the trades(mainly plumbing) once those older skilled workers begin to retire. I was in RI last week visiting friends and one of their neighbors is a plumber who is booked solid for the next year. His fee is $350 a call...

That said, I hate to mention politics but we cannot trust our politicians as we have an openly fascist party that has a ton of infighting and another more aloof party that is silently complicit lulling the majority of the country into financial slavery through meager wages across the board. Two weeks ago, my immediate boss announced that he was freezing annual wage raises because he was asked to start cutting salaries or to create a skeletal crew through questionable means. He refused and told us that all of our jobs were essentially saved by this move as he was allowed to do that instead of firing people for literally no reason. We're all starting to consider other options and I know this is happening everywhere...this country is so screwed IMHO.

Why would you blow up system? Our technical colleges are brilliant at getting their students apprenticeships. 

The failure is purely at the guidance counselor/parent/student level. We're not getting students into technical colleges because when they're in highschool, rather than prodding C students to MATC or WCTC, guidance counselors are pushing kids to UWM or encouraging them to drop out altogether. 

 

[incognito_man]

20 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Why would you blow up system? Our technical colleges are brilliant at getting their students apprenticeships. 

The failure is purely at the guidance counselor/parent/student level. We're not getting students into technical colleges because when they're in highschool, rather than prodding C students to MATC or WCTC, guidance counselors are pushing kids to UWM or encouraging them to drop out altogether. 

 

It's sometimes difficult to blame the parents/counselors. All parents want what they perceive as the "best" for their kids. And the "best" has been marketed as 4yr colleges. 

Need to address this at the marketing level to see any real change. You're never going to convince parents to accept something they view as "less" for their kids on any scale.

It's very unfortunate because both sides are deeply at fault here. And it's only getting worse.

[Norm]

You guys solve all the world's problems yet