Shanedorf Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, beekay414 said: 4 year colleges are mainly a waste. Opinions vary...my experience was the opposite - The degree from UW-Madison was hypercritical for my career both in terms of what I learned and more importantly where I got it. Multiple interviewers over the years said they brought me in because of the school I went to. ( UW has a great reputation outside of the dairy state) I do like how they set it up here in CA though. All of the University of CA campuses have a sister school that is a community college and if you do well in those CC efforts, you're guaranteed a spot at the UCs to finish out. Many people take their basic 101 courses at the community college and then transfer into the UC to get their degree. Saves a big chunk of money and offers a viable path for a large group of students I'm much older than the majority of you - and you have my empathy. Its a different, tougher world now. I graduated with a BS in Immunology/Microbiology and parlayed that into an incredible career - and I just retired in September at age 58 (Wooooo !!! ) My 4 year degree was the bedrock foundation for that early retirement I'm certain I wouldn't have enjoyed the same success/career path in today's world - and that's really unfortunate for recent grads. But I would still push back on the "mainly a waste" comment - even today- because most of the people who will hire you / not hire you had to make it through the 4-5 year gauntlet...and they want to know you did too. As far as the skyrocketing costs for a 4 year - YIKES ! there's really no justification for it My 1st semester tuition at UW Madison was $492 in 1981 and that translates to about $1500 in 2021 dollars. In-state tuition for UW-Madison is currently: $ 10,750 semester or about 7X what would be considered a reasonable increase based on inflation alone. Edited December 3, 2021 by Shanedorf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: Opinions vary...my experience was the opposite - Go down in my post and you'll see that I say 4 year degrees are fine based on the career path you need. Obviously things like nursing, law, engineering, etc can't be offered in 2 year programs but the majority of the other **** can. You don't need 4 years of classes to get a liberal arts degree or something of the like. LIS, I did 2 years of college and took 1 friggin' class towards my major in that time, on guidance from my academic advisor. It made no sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Go down in my post and you'll see that I say 4 year degrees are fine based on the career path you need. Obviously things like nursing, law, engineering, etc can't be offered in 2 year programs but the majority of the other **** can. You don't need 4 years of classes to get a liberal arts degree or something of the like. LIS, I did 2 years of college and took 1 friggin' class towards my major in that time, on guidance from my academic advisor. It made no sense to me. I mean, the 4 year liberal arts degree is literally designed to broaden backgrounds with intro-level courses. I guess I don't understand the animosity against 4yr colleges any more than animosity against community colleges. It just sounds like your preferred lifestyle and career path were not compatible with a liberal arts degree. But that's not the case for millions of others in hundreds of degree fields. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: As far as the skyrocketing costs for a 4 year - YIKES ! there's really no justification for it My 1st semester tuition at UW Madison was $492 in 1981 and that translates to about $1500 in 2021 dollars. In-state tuition for UW-Madison is currently: $ 10,750 semester or about 7X what would be considered a reasonable increase based on inflation alone. My sophomore year at Mizzou, 2002, I had to call my parents to approve a higher limit on my student credit, which was $1000, just to buy my books. I think my total was in the 12-1300 dollar range. I can only imagine what it costs 20 some years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I mean, the 4 year liberal arts degree is literally designed to broaden backgrounds with intro-level courses. I guess I don't understand the animosity against 4yr colleges any more than animosity against community colleges. It just sounds like your preferred lifestyle and career path were not compatible with a liberal arts degree. But that's not the case for millions of others in hundreds of degree fields. My issue is with paying $1000+ for ******* world history classes when I just spent 4 years of high school covering the same stuff. If you want me to go into debt for my degree, at least get me into my career path and quit ******* around with the classes that have nothing to do with it. It's not even about intro-level courses. You flat out do not need 4 years to get a liberal arts degree. You can broaden your background just as much with Google as you can with those courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Like wtf does Biology 107 have to do with a degree in communications? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, beekay414 said: My issue is with paying $1000+ for ******* world history classes when I just spent 4 years of high school covering the same stuff. If you want me to go into debt for my degree, at least get me into my career path and quit ******* around with the classes that have nothing to do with it. It's not even about intro-level courses. You flat out do not need 4 years to get a liberal arts degree. You can broaden your background just as much with Google as you can with those courses. I found there to be a lot of value in taking courses not directly related to my major. Many, many great minds have similarly recognized the value in a liberal arts degree program that encourages this as well. LIS, you may not personally have found that value (since you clearly did not continue pursuing it) - and that's fine. But it's still an EXTREMELY valuable (perhaps immeasurably so) component of our society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Like wtf does Biology 107 have to do with a degree in communications? generalist vs specialist need both for an advancing society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: I found there to be a lot of value in taking courses not directly related to my major. Many, many great minds have similarly recognized the value in a liberal arts degree program that encourages this as well. LIS, you may not personally have found that value (since you clearly did not continue pursuing it) - and that's fine. But it's still an EXTREMELY valuable (perhaps immeasurably so) component of our society. No. You don't need to go into debt to broaden your background, my guy. If you're going to college to pursue a career, which is the intent, you should only be paying for what that career entails. I don't need to pay thousands of dollars to learn more in-depth about Art History or diseases when I can do it on my own for the cost of the internet, or back in the day, library late fees. That's my point. The "broaden your background" approach to these degrees are a GRIFT straight up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: generalist vs specialist need both for an advancing society Then offer it up for free, if it's that important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, beekay414 said: No. You don't need to go into debt to broaden your background, my guy. If you're going to college to pursue a career, which is the intent, you should only be paying for what that career entails. I don't need to pay thousands of dollars to learn more in-depth about Art History or diseases when I can do it on my own for the cost of the internet, or back in the day, library late fees. That's my point. The "broaden your background" approach to these degrees are a GRIFT straight up. Disagree completely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, beekay414 said: Then offer it up for free, if it's that important. I'm ok with that. I don't know what you're actually arguing here. Education is going to cost SOMEBODY something. But the return on it is significant. I'm very happy subsidizing both 4yr liberal arts degrees AND community college degrees AND trade apprenticeships. All have value and importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, incognito_man said: Disagree completely. Not shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, incognito_man said: I'm ok with that. I don't know what you're actually arguing here. Education is going to cost SOMEBODY something. But the return on it is significant. I'm very happy subsidizing both 4yr liberal arts degrees AND community college degrees AND trade apprenticeships. All have value and importance. I'm literally arguing that you should only pay for your career path and I said as much. I'm there to learn how to become a journalist or camera man or whatever, I don't need to go into even more debt to learn about Genghis Khan or whatever. That's all I'm saying. Offer it up if it's important but don't put the burden of cost on someone trying to just get started in their life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, beekay414 said: Not shocked. I mean, you shouldn't be. I've consistently been a proponent of all avenues of education. The data speak for themselves: investing in education is a boon for society. It's not a "grift" simply because your lifestyle choice is different than millions of others. Calling 4yr degrees a grift is as nasty as insulting 2yr degrees or apprenticeships as "something less". It is just factually incorrect, lazy, and serves no useful purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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