DannyB Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I mean, if you define "bust" as he never lived up to the hype, then yeah, sure Yes, that's precisely what I mean, except instead of using the word "hype", which I think implicitly means there's something hollow or false with it, I would just say expectations. He didn't live up to the expectations that many scouts and experts had for him, and certainly wasn't the type of blue-chip foundational player you want in the number.2 overall pick in a draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Kirill said: Not enough heart. To be great you can't just be talented. You gotta want it. The world must be a strange and terrifying place for you 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, DannyB said: Yes, that's precisely what I mean, except instead of using the word "hype", which I think implicitly means there's something hollow or false with it, I would just say expectations. He didn't live up to the expectations that many scouts and experts had for him, and certainly wasn't the type of blue-chip foundational player you want in the number.2 overall pick in a draft. I think that there are degrees of busts. For example, does he still go #2 overall if there is a redraft? Absolutely not! Does he still go in R1? Absolutely! Based upon that, I wouldn't call him a bust so much as that he didn't live up to the expectations/hype of who he was supposed to be, which was Marshall Faulk or L.T. 2.0. We are talking about a guy who was still a very productive NFL player and helped his team win a Super Bowl, as opposed to a guy who is out of the league in under 3-5 years as a first round pick. You can absolutely make the same case for A.J. Hawk, D'Brickishaw Ferguson, etc. However, he's not Vince Young either, let alone guys like Trent Richardson, Jamarcus Russell, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) He probably should have been a WR. If he entered college as one, rather than a RB, he could have been much better IMO. He just wasn't physical enough as a RB in the pros. I also think he never was on a team that could scheme ideally for him, but even then he likely wouldn't have justified his draft spot. He was able to run around people so much in college that his lack of physicality and inability to run between the tackles was overlooked. That 2005 college season was one for the books though. Just spectacular. Quote You can absolutely make the same case for A.J. Hawk, D'Brickishaw Ferguson, etc. There is no way Ferguson should be in the same conversation as AJ and Bush. He was a durable, bookened LT for a decade. He just wasn't ever on a truly great team. If he was, he would be seen as one of the top OL of the 2000's. Edited June 4, 2020 by BroncosFan2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I think that there are degrees of busts. For example, does he still go #2 overall if there is a redraft? Absolutely not! Does he still go in R1? Absolutely! Based upon that, I wouldn't call him a bust so much as that he didn't live up to the expectations/hype of who he was supposed to be, which was Marshall Faulk or L.T. 2.0. We are talking about a guy who was still a very productive NFL player and helped his team win a Super Bowl, as opposed to a guy who is out of the league in under 3-5 years as a first round pick. You can absolutely make the same case for A.J. Hawk, D'Brickishaw Ferguson, etc. However, he's not Vince Young either, let alone guys like Trent Richardson, Jamarcus Russell, etc. Oh that draft was full of players that never lived up to what I thought they could, or hoped they would. A.J. Hawk is a middler. I mean he was a solid, if unspectacular starter for almost a decade, and didn't have NEARLY the excitement or expectations that Bush did. I don't think he was ever quite as good as we were hoping, but he held his own. And if you wanna start legislating degrees of busts, be my guest, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 AJ Hawk had 84+ tackles in all 9 seasons he was a starter, and was over 100 tackles in 5 of those. 946 career tackles, 20 sacks, 9 interceptions. Over drafted? Yeah, probably with only 1 pro bowl appearance, but he was a damn good player for nearly a decade. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, DannyB said: Oh that draft was full of players that never lived up to what I thought they could, or hoped they would. A.J. Hawk is a middler. I mean he was a solid, if unspectacular starter for almost a decade, and didn't have NEARLY the excitement or expectations that Bush did. I don't think he was ever quite as good as we were hoping, but he held his own. Oh yeah, for sure. So, I would also guess/say that you could make the argument, after looking at that average/middling group...who are you really taking above him other than maybe 5-10 other dudes? IMO I think that he still goes R1. Now, the 2005 draft class was historically weak (the year before it), so... I love(d) Hawk. He never lived up to what I thought he would be, but you could definitely do worse. He was very solid for his first 5 years, then when some nagging injuries caught up to him, he was a 2 down classic MLB who was off the field on 3rd down or on passing situations. 7 minutes ago, DannyB said: And if you wanna start legislating degrees of busts, be my guest, haha. I'm a Browns fan. Legislating degrees of busts is in my wheelhouse. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 did any of the skill players from those great USC offenses end up living up to the hype in the NFL? Dwayne Jarret, White, Leinart, Mike Williams etc... did not really do much in the pro's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, THE DUKE said: AJ Hawk had 84+ tackles in all 9 seasons he was a starter, and was over 100 tackles in 5 of those. 946 career tackles, 20 sacks, 9 interceptions. Over drafted? Yeah, probably with only 1 pro bowl appearance, but he was a damn good player for nearly a decade. Yep, exactly. That's how I view Bush. Was he overdrafted? Yes. Was he still a solid player for close to a decade? Absolutely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, MWil23 said: Yep, exactly. That's how I view Bush. Was he overdrafted? Yes. Was he still a solid player for close to a decade? Absolutely. In terms of expectations vs output, AJ Hawk >>> Reggie Bush 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, THE DUKE said: In terms of expectations vs output, AJ Hawk >>> Reggie Bush True, albeit both helped their teams win a Super Bowl, both played in the league for a decade, and both were "overdrafted". However, one was a Heisman winner and supposed to light the league on fire (Bush) and be a HOF type RB, and one was not quite who he was supposed to be, and tbh, probably a reason why most teams shouldn't/don't draft LB in the Top 10 if you aren't a blitz/edge type in today's NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 He only averaged 3.6 YPC his rookie/soph years where he was trying to 'figure out' how to translate his college production in the pros and didnt really take a leap until his 4th year in the league. It took him a long time to figure it out. Bush also didnt seem to run with the same 'umph' in the NFL as he did in NCAA. He could have had a Jamal Charles type of career and running style but after his shotty early years getting knocked around in the league I think it actually impacted his running style for the rest of his career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duluther Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I’ll bite the bullet and just say what I’ve always felt, though I should do research and provide it before making this unpopular opinion. The two big teams in college football during his tenure were USC and Texas. They had a lot of big draft prospects but also got to the championship. So they should have been good on both an individual level and as a team. ... but the USC-Texas Championship may have been the most overhyped (in the aftermath) championship I’ve watched. Vince Young is certainly the most overhyped college player I’ve ever seen. And Reggie Bush isn’t far behind. Again, conducting research would help back my claim, but I’m lazy atm. But I do believe that college football was just really down at that period in time, and the worst of the best were perhaps the two biggest media teams, SoCal and Texas. Young was dumb as bricks and sensitive as nylon, but fit the bill as a prototypical “exciting” player. Bush fit the bill as a prototypical “exciting” halfback. So while neither team was great and none of the big prospects were great, the ingredients were there for things to be blown way out of proportion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I don’t think you’ll find a single Saints fan call him a bust. He was a huge part of our offense and was a key piece to our Super Bowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 I’m not saying bust as in he fizzled and never accomplished anything. I’m saying bust based on expectations of him to be the next big thing. I don’t recall any player ever getting more hype than him. As an all purpose guy, he did alright, but as a runner he was subpar at best. There are a hundred guys drafted as high as him that did far worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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