Heinz D. Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 4 hours ago, Broncofan said: Elway just carried very meh teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 5 hours ago, Broncofan said: Outside of the SF-CIN game, the NFC just destroyed the AFC from 2002-9. Elway just carried very meh teams. Even worse, Dan Reeves pretty much handcuffed the O and only let Elway loose in the 4Q to win games. Shanahan undid a lot of his amazing work with his WAS tenure, but he really transformed the O (and yes, getting Terrell Davis helped, but going away from Reeves was the key step there coaching-wise). Ironically, the one winnable SB game was the WAS one. Elway had a 10-0 lead before their D melted down in the 2Q, and it was 28-10 at halftime. What ppl forget is that Doug Williams fumbled on the drive before the comeback started, but there was no replay. That would have been a 13-0 o 17-0 game at that point. Now, it's not like 1 play would have turned around the whole outcome - but it highlighted that DEN was at least competitive there. With SF, it wasn't even close, the 49ers were just that much better. The NYG game, they were competitive on paper - but frankly, the G-men killed DEN in the 2H after wearing them out in the trenches in the 1H. It was a pretty depressing time to be an AFC team fan - every year, the AFC teams would hope for "every given Sunday" mantra to kick in - but for CIN's game, it was mostly a blowout and confirmed the dominance of the NFC at that stage. Can't really say we looked at any of those losses and said, "man, what might have been". It was more a Q of whether or not Dan Reeves' style wasted the best years of Elway's career with no titles. 2 hours ago, thebestever6 said: I think Elway is one of the most underrated QBs ever his Superbowl wins he was managing a Ferrari imo. I think getting to the Superbowls with those offenses and teams was more impressive. Stiiiiiiill looking for one word -- one measly letter -- of honest criticism for ABYSMAL quarterback performance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 AFC was trash, that’s all you need to know 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinSting Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 '86 was a trip. Broncos played awesome in the 1st half and smoked the Giants...but only had a small lead at halftime that should've been a big lead at halftime over the Giants. Strange goal-line stand before intermission kept the nervous Giants alive, and two Denver FG misses. Giants open the 3rd quarter by being stopped...so they go for a fake punt on 4th down and get it. Snowball from there, Giants roll to the win. Broncos up 10-0 on the Skins. Well here we go, Elway finally wins the big one. NO. Doug Williams and Timmy Smith (200 yards rushing for a no-name guy in a SB?!?) say hi. The 2nd quarter was the game, quite ridiculous. Which had already happened 2 years earlier when Miami was up 10-7 on the Niners til the 2nd quarter happened. AFC just had nothing for the NFC back then, the NFC title game was the Super Bowl. Niners, well nevermind that game was awful. Half the globe turned off the TV early during that silliness. Denver never had a chance and everyone knew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 hours ago, DannyB said: Stiiiiiiill looking for one word -- one measly letter -- of honest criticism for ABYSMAL quarterback performance Their defenses allowed 39, 42, and 55 points in three games (with only one turnover forced), and you are blaming Elway? He didn't cost them those Super Bowls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: you are blaming Elway? Literally, and I mean LITERALLY not what I said AT ALL, and the fact that you took it there, it's no wonder none of you can utter one remotely actually accurate assessment of him. 15 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: He didn't cost them those Super Bowls. Refer to my statement above. If you guys can't give a genuine assessment of Elway, I assume you think Peyton's performance against the Seahawks is like a top 5 Super Bowl performance from a QB of all-time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 29 minutes ago, DannyB said: Literally, and I mean LITERALLY not what I said AT ALL, and the fact that you took it there, it's no wonder none of you can utter one remotely actually accurate assessment of him. When you make the comments that you make, you make it seem like you pin the losses on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 9 hours ago, DannyB said: Me looking for a single word of criticism from a Broncos fan for John Elway who had a 45% completion percentage and a 2 to 6 TD:INT ratio and averaged 13 points per game in those Super Bowls... Care to place some context behind those raw numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 28 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: When you make the comments that you make, you make it seem like you pin the losses on him. Nope. I don't specifically disagree with your assessment of the Broncos defenses, or the offense around Elway. But for you to completely exclude him from ANY blame is asinine. For some reason Denver seems to be the most delusional fanbase when it comes to their franchise's best quarterback(s). 18 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Care to place some context behind those raw numbers? No not really, feel free to do so. I will say his first SB performance is the only one in-line from his overall average performance from that given year. The last two were brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, DannyB said: No not really, feel free to do so. I will say his first SB performance is the only one in-line from his overall average performance from that given year. The last two were brutal. So then you agree that raw numbers tell the whole story then? Yes or No? Edited June 6, 2020 by JustAnotherFan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 They really just weren't that good of teams, relative to what the NFC was putting in each superbowl in the 80s. Each of those years the Broncos were a 10 or 11 win team in a weak conference that made the superbowl then ran into an absolute buzz saw of a 14-2 kind of NFC Champion. Like, in 89, the AFC had one team with double digit wins. That was it. There were teams that missed the playoffs in the NFC that may easily have been the second best team had they flipped conferences that year. Over that time, their toughest year to year competition in the AFC were the Kosar Browns which is....okay, but that's not going to prep you for the dynasties that were mid-swing on the other side of the league. Denver losing those superbowls was just a one game snapshot of the balance of the league at the time. And this question of, was it Elway, was it the D, was it whatever, it was all of it. The entirety of those Broncos teams were good enough to beat up on the rest of the AFC. Elway was good enough to produce against the AFC, the defense was good enough to shut down the AFC, etc. The entirety of those teams were also not good enough to be the best teams of the NFC. Elway couldn't handle it, the D was lost against those far better and less mistake prone offenses, just the entire team was outclassed by simply greater NFC teams. And this wasn't just Denver. Most of the 80s and into the early 90s, whoever the NFC put up was just outclassing who the AFC put up. Before Denver you had the Dolphins and Patriots getting curbstomped by great San Fran and Chicago teams. The Bills made their first shot real competitive, and then dove into the AFC trend of struggling to make the superbowl competitive at all. Took until the late 90s for it to flip back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightime Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 They got outplayed in all phases. And Elway got outplayed by his counterparts. The only time Elway outplayed a QB in the Superbowl was in Super Bowl XXXIII Those late 90s Bronco teams were stacked though. Took a 25 point lead on the Falcons and showed them how to hold onto it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awsi Dooger Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 On 6/5/2020 at 9:27 AM, August4th said: was the NFC on another level compared to the AFC back then? watching SB highlights of that era it was like "bringing a knife to a gunfight" on a football field The two conferences evolved totally differently. The NFC was stocking up on big physical athletic ruthless linemen and linebackers while the AFC used the 1983 draft to rationalize that it should play cupcake football, a full 25 years before cupcake football would be rewarded by the rules changes. Consequently it was one refreshing NFC massacre after another. I loved it and hoped it would never end, even though I was a Dolphins fan. I was living in Las Vegas and wagering on sports. You could plan your entire year around stocking up on Super Bowl props focused on NFC dominance. Every year there would be hype that this season would be different. There were always bargains available during midseason once some AFC team feigned legitimacy. AFC football during that time frame was an absolute insult to anyone who was old enough to witness the physical run oriented '70s. That's why I've never been a Dan Marino fan and am flabbergasted that any Dolphins fan has positive memories or impressions of that era. We were laughing at the cupcake teams during the early '70s then volunteered as a cupcake team in the mid '80s and remained there for a full decade. It is still disgusting every time I think about it. Fortunately the Canes saved the day with physical play on both sides of the ball. It is very true that Denver's running game with Terrell Davis is the variable that ended the NFC's dominance. If that had been merely another AFC pantyhose passing team then Green Bay would have waltzed. It is the reason I always have to laugh at Aaron Schatz and the gang at Football Outsiders for their numbers-only totally clueless interpretation of NFL football, especially regarding the impact of the running game and in decades before they were old enough to know what was going on from a situational perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 The afc sucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) On 05/06/2020 at 9:19 PM, DannyB said: Me looking for a single word of criticism from a Broncos fan for John Elway who had a 45% completion percentage and a 2 to 6 TD:INT ratio and averaged 13 points per game in those Super Bowls... Yeah but....flak jacket. It's ironic because he was usually one of the first to stick the boot into Brady if the team lost. Double standards. Edited June 7, 2020 by Hunter2_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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